Messages in Advanced-Passenger-Train group. Page 68 of 68.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3437 From: hetsc68 Date: 18/01/2016
Subject: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3438 From: Paul Batterson Date: 19/01/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3439 From: Part Time Spotter Date: 26/01/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3440 From: hetsc68 Date: 26/01/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3441 From: Paul Batterson Date: 09/02/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3442 From: alan_steam Date: 22/04/2016
Subject: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3443 From: Shane.wilton Date: 22/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3444 From: Alan Coombe Date: 22/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3445 From: Alan Coombe Date: 24/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3446 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 25/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3447 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 25/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3448 From: Shane.wilton Date: 25/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [4 Attachments]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3449 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 26/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [4 Attachments]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3450 From: Alan Coombe Date: 06/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3451 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 07/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3452 From: Alan Coombe Date: 07/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3453 From: robert_sumsion Date: 08/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3454 From: Shane.wilton Date: 08/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3455 From: robert_sumsion Date: 24/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3456 From: David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2) Date: 24/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3457 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 24/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3458 From: grgball Date: 08/09/2017
Subject: Coventry Electric Museum closing next month
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3459 From: Arlen Andra S Bone Date: 10/10/2017
Subject: Re: N Gauge model of APT-E
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3460 From: r.m.ellsworth@att.net Date: 24/08/2019
Subject: We're not abandoned, are we?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3461 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 24/08/2019
Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3462 From: Peter Tisdale Date: 29/08/2019
Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3463 From: Philip McGaw Date: 08/10/2019
Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3464 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 22/10/2019
Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?


Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3437 From: hetsc68 Date: 18/01/2016
Subject: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question

Thanks for letting me into the group.


Can anyone help me with a question.


I know that the APT was formed of 370001 - 370006.


What vehicle numbers made up each set?


Also I have been given to understand that the two set were put together to form a single train

i.e.

370001 + 370004

370002 + 370005

370003 + 370006

Is this right?


Thanks guys for any help you can give me.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3438 From: Paul Batterson Date: 19/01/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
001 always paired with 002, and the individual trailer coaches had numbers like 48601 the power car had numbers of 43,,, on side 


On Mon, 18 Jan, 2016 at 18:41, hetsc68@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train]
<Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thanks for letting me into the group.


Can anyone help me with a question.


I know that the APT was formed of 370001 - 370006.


What vehicle numbers made up each set?


Also I have been given to understand that the two set were put together to form a single train

i.e.

370001 + 370004

370002 + 370005

370003 + 370006

Is this right?


Thanks guys for any help you can give me.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3439 From: Part Time Spotter Date: 26/01/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Thanks Paul.

Looking at apt-p.com it gives the formations as:

SD3+S2+S2+SC2+F2+ etc.

Sadly this means not a lot to me.  Whereas something like DTS + TS + TU + etc. does as on the site is the APT-P vehicle Disposal list with the DTS including Numbers i.e. 48101, 48102, 48103 etc.

Does anyone have this?

 



From: "Paul Batterson paulbatterson@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train]" <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
To: "Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com" <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: <APT Group> Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question

 
001 always paired with 002, and the individual trailer coaches had numbers like 48601 the power car had numbers of 43,,, on side 


 
Thanks for letting me into the group.

Can anyone help me with a question.

I know that the APT was formed of 370001 - 370006.

What vehicle numbers made up each set?

Also I have been given to understand that the two set were put together to form a single train
i.e.
370001 + 370004
370002 + 370005
370003 + 370006
Is this right?

Thanks guys for any help you can give me.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3440 From: hetsc68 Date: 26/01/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Thanks Paul.

Looking at apt-p.com it gives the formations as:

SD3+S2+S2+SC2+F2+ etc.

Sadly this means not a lot to me.  Whereas something like DTS + TS + TU + etc. does as on the site is the APT-P vehicle Disposal list with the DTS including Numbers i.e. 48101, 48102, 48103 etc.

Does anyone have this?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3441 From: Paul Batterson Date: 09/02/2016
Subject: Re: Formation/Vehicle Numbers Question
Hello, sd is standard driving, S standard and so on as I understand it, sc standard corridor or conductor,  the proper meanings where DTS,etc.  


On Wed, 20 Jan, 2016 at 12:38, hetsc68@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train]
<Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thanks Paul.

Looking at apt-p.com it gives the formations as:

SD3+S2+S2+SC2+F2+ etc.

Sadly this means not a lot to me.  Whereas something like DTS + TS + TU + etc. does as on the site is the APT-P vehicle Disposal list with the DTS including Numbers i.e. 48101, 48102, 48103 etc.

Does anyone have this?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3442 From: alan_steam Date: 22/04/2016
Subject: Rapido APT-E model

Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3443 From: Shane.wilton Date: 22/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Hi, I think the colour is spot on.  The lighting may make it look green, try it in natural light.

Cheers

Shane

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Apr 2016, at 16:43, ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe

Posted by: ac2ombe@...
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Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3444 From: Alan Coombe Date: 22/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Hi Shane,
 
I did check it by natural light – the blue of the box looks nearer the colour to me.
 
Alan
 
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
 
 

Hi, I think the colour is spot on.  The lighting may make it look green, try it in natural light.
 
Cheers
 
Shane

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Apr 2016, at 16:43, ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe

Posted by: ac2ombe@...
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3445 From: Alan Coombe Date: 24/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Hi all,
 
Today I showed the model to my son who worked for BR in the blue period and he thinks the colour is too green.
 
The blue on the APT-E was the standard BR blue at the time.
 
Attached are a picture of the model taken outside today and another taken of a recently painted bogie which was on this Yahoo site.
 
Don’t look the same to me.
 
Yours,
 
Alan Coombe
 
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
 
 

Hi Shane,
 
I did check it by natural light – the blue of the box looks nearer the colour to me.
 
Alan
 
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
 
 

Hi, I think the colour is spot on.  The lighting may make it look green, try it in natural light.
 
Cheers
 
Shane

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Apr 2016, at 16:43, ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe

Posted by: ac2ombe@...
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
  @@attachment@@
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3446 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 25/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:

- certainly some of the photos of them online look totally unacceptably green:


yet others look great:


- supposing Rapido make the mistake of referring to photos rather than Pantone numbers:

     = forty year old colour pictures vary wildly, partly from lighting conditions, partly because different colour films have different colour film casts (such as ‘Ektachrome Blue’ ) and partly through the different ageing processes of each emulsion.

     = anyone trying to eliminate colour cast from an old photo has a hard job: the bare aluminium has quite a blue cast of its own, and Photoshopping that out to make it ‘grey' will distort the colour of the blue.

- it’s in the nature of the pigment to be a bit ambiguous in different lights.
Look at this 40th Anniversary picture at Shildon: blue door yet green roof!


and while we are at it, we all see colour differently, and here’s "Cambridge Blue":


David 1/2d
ex APT Design
ex Cambridge University
ex Kodak 

On 22 Apr 2016, at 17:57, 'Shane.wilton' shane.wilton@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi, I think the colour is spot on.  The lighting may make it look green, try it in natural light.

Cheers

Shane

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Apr 2016, at 16:43, ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe


Posted by: ac2ombe@...
Reply via web post•Reply to sender •Reply to group •Start a New Topic•Messages in this topic(1)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3447 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 25/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:

- certainly some of the photos of them online look totally unacceptably green:


yet others look great:


- supposing Rapido make the mistake of referring to photos rather than Pantone numbers:

     = forty year old colour pictures vary wildly, partly from lighting conditions, partly because different colour films have different colour film casts (such as ‘Ektachrome Blue’) and partly through the different ageing processes of each emulsion.

     = anyone trying to eliminate colour cast from an old photo has a hard job: the bare aluminium has quite a blue cast of its own, and Photoshopping that out to make it ‘grey' will distort the colour of the blue.

- it’s in the nature of the pigment to be a bit ambiguous.
Look at this 40th Anniversary picture at Shildon: blue door yet green roof!


David 1/2d
ex Kodak 
ex APT Design

(While we are at it, we all see colour differently, and here’s "Cambridge Blue":


and ex Cambridge University)


On 22 Apr 2016, at 17:57, 'Shane.wilton' shane.wilton@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi, I think the colour is spot on.  The lighting may make it look green, try it in natural light.

Cheers

Shane

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Apr 2016, at 16:43, ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe


Posted by: ac2ombe@...
Reply via web post•Reply to sender •Reply to group •Start a New Topic•Messages in this topic(1)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3448 From: Shane.wilton Date: 25/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [4 Attachments]
Don't go by the upper pic as I think it's mine. It was taken using the still function on my video camera and this shade of blue doesn't come out well. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Apr 2016, at 13:04, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:


- certainly some of the photos of them online look totally unacceptably green:

<PastedGraphic-4.tiff>

yet others look great:

<PastedGraphic-5.tiff>

- supposing Rapido make the mistake of referring to photos rather than Pantone numbers:

     = forty year old colour pictures vary wildly, partly from lighting conditions, partly because different colour films have different colour film casts (such as ‘Ektachrome Blue’) and partly through the different ageing processes of each emulsion.

     = anyone trying to eliminate colour cast from an old photo has a hard job: the bare aluminium has quite a blue cast of its own, and Photoshopping that out to make it ‘grey' will distort the colour of the blue.

- it’s in the nature of the pigment to be a bit ambiguous.
Look at this 40th Anniversary picture at Shildon: blue door yet green roof!

<APT-E Party.jpeg>

David 1/2d
ex Kodak 
ex APT Design

(While we are at it, we all see colour differently, and here’s "Cambridge Blue":

<PastedGraphic-2.tiff>

and ex Cambridge University)


On 22 Apr 2016, at 17:57, 'Shane.wilton' shane.wilton@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi, I think the colour is spot on.  The lighting may make it look green, try it in natural light.

Cheers

Shane

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Apr 2016, at 16:43, ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi all,


Received my model today - on initial inspection the blue colour seems to be too green to me. Anyone else think that or is it just me.


Yours,


Alan Coombe


Posted by: ac2ombe@...
Reply via web post•Reply to sender •Reply to group •Start a New Topic•Messages in this topic(1)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3449 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 26/04/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [4 Attachments]
Sorry about near-duplicate emails.

The first was sent three days ago, and before that arrived here sent the second compressed version at 1pm. Even that took 3 hours to arrive - looks like a Gmail issue. D

On 25 Apr 2016, at 13:04, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from David Halfpenny (gmail) included below] 

I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3450 From: Alan Coombe Date: 06/05/2016
Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
Attachments :
    Hi all,
     
    David and Shane  sorry for my late reply but I have been away without any internet access.
     
    Attached are two photos of the APT-E model and a Hornby HST of early 1980s vintage – the blue on the latter I think is a reasonable match for the prototype. The first photo was taken with a Canon EOS slr – the second with a Fuji Finepix bridge camera - both outside in sunlight.
     
    The blue should be approximately the same on both models but clearly is not.
     
    I bought the APT-E model to put in a glass case – wont happen with that colour.
     
    Yours,
     
    Alan Coombe
     
    Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:56 PM
    Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
     
     

    Sorry about near-duplicate emails.

     
    The first was sent three days ago, and before that arrived here sent the second compressed version at 1pm. Even that took 3 hours to arrive - looks like a Gmail issue. D
     
    On 25 Apr 2016, at 13:04, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
     
    [Attachment(s) from David Halfpenny (gmail) included below] 

    I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:
     
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3451 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 07/05/2016
    Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
    I’d be really disappointed, myself.

    It’s not that the colour is all that ‘wrong’ in that it’s a ‘reasonable' match for some photos taken under artificial light at Shildon:


    BUT not others:


    All the same:

    - it’s very different from at least some of Rapido’s own advertising (pre-production sample), 


    - it’s glaringly different from other Rail Blue stock you have.


    What’s to be done?

    - Return to the shop for a refund ?  I imagine demand will be high.

    - Equipping your glass case with slightly blue-cast lighting?

    - Keeping the glass case away from the HST?

    - Finding out whether it’s a batch thing and could be exchanged for a better specimen?


    I tried to order one myself but in ignorance made the mistake of contacting the NRM at York, who flatly and repeatedly denied that the model - or indeed Locomotion - existed. With friends like these . . . 

    I must say that by the time the YouTube sound effects reach my ears, they have gone through numerous stages of Tinny - the chips, the model speakers, the video camera mike, the sound processing and digitising, plus my laptop sound-card and tiny speakers. Yet all the same, hearing them sends a tingle down my spine and sends me back 40 years.

    Back then, blue was notoriously unsuitable as a rail livery colour (check out its prevalence pre 1964) and the new ‘arty-farty’ Rail Blue caused a lot of T&RS Maintenance engineers to spit teeth. (Indeed the old monks used to grind up gemstones to make bright blues for their illuminated manuscripts. ) The old LMS design office had become the home of BR Scientific Services, nestling in the corner between the A6 trunk road and the Derby-Birmingham main line. All along the road bridge abutments they put paint samples out in all weathers in the corrosive atmosphere belched out by local mill and foundry. (Eee, Lad! We had spectacular sunsets in Derby in those days.)
    Year after year I watched these paints change in colour and saturation, while the scientists made careful notes and improved the breed.

    Finally, I’m astonished at how little response there’s been here. That’s not meant as criticism, I simply imagined quite a few people here would have bought models and offered opinions.

    David 1/2d
    APT Design


    On 6 May 2016, at 19:35, 'Alan Coombe' ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



    Hi all,
     
    David and Shane  sorry for my late reply but I have been away without any internet access.
     
    Attached are two photos of the APT-E model and a Hornby HST of early 1980s vintage – the blue on the latter I think is a reasonable match for the prototype. The first photo was taken with a Canon EOS slr – the second with a Fuji Finepix bridge camera - both outside in sunlight.
     
    The blue should be approximately the same on both models but clearly is not.
     
    I bought the APT-E model to put in a glass case – wont happen with that colour.
     
    Yours,
     
    Alan Coombe
     
    From: mailto:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:56 PM
    To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
     

    Sorry about near-duplicate emails. 

     
    The first was sent three days ago, and before that arrived here sent the second compressed version at 1pm. Even that took 3 hours to arrive - looks like a Gmail issue. D
     
    On 25 Apr 2016, at 13:04, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
     
    [Attachment(s) from David Halfpenny (gmail) included below] 

    I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:
     
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3452 From: Alan Coombe Date: 07/05/2016
    Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
    Attachments :
      Hi All
       
      David, that first picture is a classic example of artificial light altering the colour in a photo – the bogie which is further away from the lights is much bluer but still with a green tinge to my eye. Even daylight alters the perceived colour depending on what time of day it is.
       
      I will be taking it up with Locomotion and Rapido but have too much on at the moment – will be without e-mail for another two weeks shortly.
       
      Worries me a bit that there has been so little comment on this matter – if anyone doubts the blue stripe on the APT-E was the standard BR blue they can see the comments by Kit and Paul to my question on this site in July 2009.
       
      Yours,
       
      Alan Coombe
       
      Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 10:23 PM
      Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
       
       

      I’d be really disappointed, myself.

       
      It’s not that the colour is all that ‘wrong’ in that it’s a ‘reasonable' match for some photos taken under artificial light at Shildon:
       
       
      BUT not others:
       
       
      All the same:
       
      - it’s very different from at least some of Rapido’s own advertising (pre-production sample),
       
       
      - it’s glaringly different from other Rail Blue stock you have.
       
       
      What’s to be done?
       
      - Return to the shop for a refund ?  I imagine demand will be high.
       
      - Equipping your glass case with slightly blue-cast lighting?
       
      - Keeping the glass case away from the HST?
       
      - Finding out whether it’s a batch thing and could be exchanged for a better specimen?
       
       
      I tried to order one myself but in ignorance made the mistake of contacting the NRM at York, who flatly and repeatedly denied that the model - or indeed Locomotion - existed. With friends like these . . .
       
      I must say that by the time the YouTube sound effects reach my ears, they have gone through numerous stages of Tinny - the chips, the model speakers, the video camera mike, the sound processing and digitising, plus my laptop sound-card and tiny speakers. Yet all the same, hearing them sends a tingle down my spine and sends me back 40 years.
       
      Back then, blue was notoriously unsuitable as a rail livery colour (check out its prevalence pre 1964) and the new ‘arty-farty’ Rail Blue caused a lot of T&RS Maintenance engineers to spit teeth. (Indeed the old monks used to grind up gemstones to make bright blues for their illuminated manuscripts. ) The old LMS design office had become the home of BR Scientific Services, nestling in the corner between the A6 trunk road and the Derby-Birmingham main line. All along the road bridge abutments they put paint samples out in all weathers in the corrosive atmosphere belched out by local mill and foundry. (Eee, Lad! We had spectacular sunsets in Derby in those days.)
      Year after year I watched these paints change in colour and saturation, while the scientists made careful notes and improved the breed.
       
      Finally, I’m astonished at how little response there’s been here. That’s not meant as criticism, I simply imagined quite a few people here would have bought models and offered opinions.
       
      David 1/2d
      APT Design
       
       
      On 6 May 2016, at 19:35, 'Alan Coombe' ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
       


      Hi all,
       
      David and Shane  sorry for my late reply but I have been away without any internet access.
       
      Attached are two photos of the APT-E model and a Hornby HST of early 1980s vintage – the blue on the latter I think is a reasonable match for the prototype. The first photo was taken with a Canon EOS slr – the second with a Fuji Finepix bridge camera - both outside in sunlight.
       
      The blue should be approximately the same on both models but clearly is not.
       
      I bought the APT-E model to put in a glass case – wont happen with that colour.
       
      Yours,
       
      Alan Coombe
       
      Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:56 PM
      Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
       

      Sorry about near-duplicate emails. 

       
      The first was sent three days ago, and before that arrived here sent the second compressed version at 1pm. Even that took 3 hours to arrive - looks like a Gmail issue. D
       
      On 25 Apr 2016, at 13:04, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
       
      [Attachment(s) from David Halfpenny (gmail) included below] 

      I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:
       


       
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3453 From: robert_sumsion Date: 08/05/2016
      Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
      Having read this mail trail on colours, I thought I'd unpack mine and check it out.

      My first thoughts were Oh S**T it is greenish, then I photographed the model in direct sunlight and in the shade.

      In the shade I thought the bogies were about the right colour, and in direct sunlight the bodyshell was just right. The opposite I felt was true regarding the greenish tint. The bodyshell looks greenish in dark lighting conditions and vica-versa for the bogies. I felt that the blue in bright sunshine did not look significantly different to any of my other BR Blue painted locomotives. JMO

      From reading the Rapido development teams efforts in this respect, I know that Jason from Rapido used a colour chart against the paint job of the APT-E in Shildon to get the correct colours on the model.

      The fact that the (scale) model looks different in differing lighting conditions is not really under their control. BTW the real thing suffers from colour changes as well - see my enclosures.

      Over 2000 models were sold and this is the first time that I have seen that anybody that has posted issues with the colours. For a display model I would think that some form of lighting might be in order to change the colour hue of the model. But this is really down to personal preference.

      If that is not acceptable then these models are selling for between £300 and over £700.
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3454 From: Shane.wilton Date: 08/05/2016
      Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
      Nice words David. The colour is a very subjective matter, overall I think it looks fine but some of the reviews in the modelling press mention that the blue does have a green tint to it. I can see that myself but it's not enough to spoil it for me. After all it's a model that many thought would never appear!

      As for the apparent lack of postings in this group, that's most likely down to dilution by social media and forums. Facebook has a fairly active group, RMWeb has a very lengthy thread on the APT-E over 120 pages pretty much dedicated to one train!

      Cheers

      Shane

      Sent from my iPhone

      On 6 May 2016, at 22:23, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

       

      I’d be really disappointed, myself.


      It’s not that the colour is all that ‘wrong’ in that it’s a ‘reasonable' match for some photos taken under artificial light at Shildon:

      <apt-e.jpeg>

      BUT not others:

      <14341695288_cfd077db1e.jpeg>

      All the same:

      - it’s very different from at least some of Rapido’s own advertising (pre-production sample), 

      <post-22012-0-04640100-1448890935_thumb.jpeg>

      - it’s glaringly different from other Rail Blue stock you have.


      What’s to be done?

      - Return to the shop for a refund ?  I imagine demand will be high.

      - Equipping your glass case with slightly blue-cast lighting?

      - Keeping the glass case away from the HST?

      - Finding out whether it’s a batch thing and could be exchanged for a better specimen?


      I tried to order one myself but in ignorance made the mistake of contacting the NRM at York, who flatly and repeatedly denied that the model - or indeed Locomotion - existed. With friends like these . . . 

      I must say that by the time the YouTube sound effects reach my ears, they have gone through numerous stages of Tinny - the chips, the model speakers, the video camera mike, the sound processing and digitising, plus my laptop sound-card and tiny speakers. Yet all the same, hearing them sends a tingle down my spine and sends me back 40 years.

      Back then, blue was notoriously unsuitable as a rail livery colour (check out its prevalence pre 1964) and the new ‘arty-farty’ Rail Blue caused a lot of T&RS Maintenance engineers to spit teeth. (Indeed the old monks used to grind up gemstones to make bright blues for their illuminated manuscripts. ) The old LMS design office had become the home of BR Scientific Services, nestling in the corner between the A6 trunk road and the Derby-Birmingham main line. All along the road bridge abutments they put paint samples out in all weathers in the corrosive atmosphere belched out by local mill and foundry. (Eee, Lad! We had spectacular sunsets in Derby in those days.)
      Year after year I watched these paints change in colour and saturation, while the scientists made careful notes and improved the breed.

      Finally, I’m astonished at how little response there’s been here. That’s not meant as criticism, I simply imagined quite a few people here would have bought models and offered opinions.

      David 1/2d
      APT Design


      On 6 May 2016, at 19:35, 'Alan Coombe' ac2ombe@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



      Hi all,
       
      David and Shane  sorry for my late reply but I have been away without any internet access.
       
      Attached are two photos of the APT-E model and a Hornby HST of early 1980s vintage – the blue on the latter I think is a reasonable match for the prototype. The first photo was taken with a Canon EOS slr – the second with a Fuji Finepix bridge camera - both outside in sunlight.
       
      The blue should be approximately the same on both models but clearly is not.
       
      I bought the APT-E model to put in a glass case – wont happen with that colour.
       
      Yours,
       
      Alan Coombe
       
      From: mailto:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 10:56 PM
      To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: <APT Group> Rapido APT-E model
       

      Sorry about near-duplicate emails. 

       
      The first was sent three days ago, and before that arrived here sent the second compressed version at 1pm. Even that took 3 hours to arrive - looks like a Gmail issue. D
       
      On 25 Apr 2016, at 13:04, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
       
      [Attachment(s) from David Halfpenny (gmail) included below] 

      I’ve not seen an actual model, Alan, but:
       


      <IMG_2888a.jpeg><DSCF3559a.jpeg>
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3455 From: robert_sumsion Date: 24/05/2016
      Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model [5 Attachments]
      Words APT-E colours on RMWeb from the man himself.

      The Official Rapido APT-E Thread - Page 131 - Rapido Trains

       
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3456 From: David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2) Date: 24/05/2016
      Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
      I notice that the model APT-E on the cover of Railway Modeller is a bright clear blue, while the review photos inside are the ambivalent greeny-blue we’ve seen commented on.




      > On 8 May 2016, at 12:26, bob.digital@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > Jason from Rapido used a colour chart against the paint job of the APT-E in Shildon to get the correct colours on the model.


      That probably explains how this all happened.


      While it 'sounds perfectly reasonable’ to match prototype colours side by side against a colour chart, the physics simply doesn’t work out when the ambient lighting is NOT full-spectrum. If Shildon had rolled the train out of doors for Jason (easier said than done, of course) I think he would have come back with a different match from the same colour card.


      So how did RM get the two vastly different colours in one publication?
      It’s not much help to us if they simply Photoshopped the cover. But if it’s simply the photo lighting, then perhaps we could display the model under special lighting that has the green dropped. As it wouldn’t necessarily be easy to match a light source to a gelatine filter without a photo lab, I’m thinking in terms of a diffused LED source with the green dialled down electronically by experiment.
      Model railway exhibitions are less of a problem because, frankly, everything looks a bit weird under the industrial lighting at most venues I go to.


      David 1/2d
      ex Kodak as well as ex BR
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3457 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 24/05/2016
      Subject: Re: Rapido APT-E model
      OK what I wrote got superseded by a message that arrived on Group in the same instant!

      To quote the information linked-into:

      Rapido Bill wrote on RMWeb:

      “For for the record, here's what we matched to....

      Back when we were doing the APT-E scans one of the intermediate bogies was being touched up by Melissa Jardine of the APT-E Conservation group with, as she reported it, the can of blue paint used during the restoration. I commented that would be great to get a sample of the blue paint, and this was answered by my being given the lid to the now nearly empty tin of paint! It went home in a plastic bag in my luggage (which smelled oddly like paint thinners for quite a while afterwards), then on to China with me (it had dried by then!). We matched the model paint to that colour, and it is quite a close match in daylight.”

      and Kit showed some examples of 1970s colour photos. (I really must dig mine out.)

      He mentions Agfa, Kodak and Fuji film as each having its own colour bias - at Kodak in the 1960s we used to joke that Agfa aimed to differentiate shades of greens in the boring forests of Germany, Kodak aimed to make prairies golden under blue skies (hence eye-popping reds), and Fuji aimed to make cherry blossom look magical and prevent Japanese faces looking jaundiced, while Ferrania was designed to self-destruct - all of which contain grains of commercial truth. But there are two things in particular to look out for:

      - for both film speed and processing speed, many professional photographers used Kodak’s Ektachrome large-format transparency film, which had a high UV sensitivity giving a strong “Ektachrome Blue” effect out of doors. Be aware of that potential bias.

      - the best colour renderings and archival survival comes from 35mm Kodakchrome, because the dyes weren’t ‘in’ the film but were put in at the Factory. (Snag: less resistant to projection.)
      Therefore all other thinks being equal, a little-shown Kodachrome transparency will outperform just about any other colour still taken between 1940 and 2010.

      David 1/2d

      > On 24 May 2016, at 12:00, 'David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > I notice that the model APT-E on the cover of Railway Modeller is a bright clear blue, while the review photos inside are the ambivalent greeny-blue we’ve seen commented on.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >> On 8 May 2016, at 12:26, bob.digital@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >>
      >> Jason from Rapido used a colour chart against the paint job of the APT-E in Shildon to get the correct colours on the model.
      >
      >
      > That probably explains how this all happened.
      >
      >
      > While it 'sounds perfectly reasonable’ to match prototype colours side by side against a colour chart, the physics simply doesn’t work out when the ambient lighting is NOT full-spectrum. If Shildon had rolled the train out of doors for Jason (easier said than done, of course) I think he would have come back with a different match from the same colour card.
      >
      >
      > So how did RM get the two vastly different colours in one publication?
      > It’s not much help to us if they simply Photoshopped the cover. But if it’s simply the photo lighting, then perhaps we could display the model under special lighting that has the green dropped. As it wouldn’t necessarily be easy to match a light source to a gelatine filter without a photo lab, I’m thinking in terms of a diffused LED source with the green dialled down electronically by experiment.
      > Model railway exhibitions are less of a problem because, frankly, everything looks a bit weird under the industrial lighting at most venues I go to.
      >
      >
      > David 1/2d
      > ex Kodak as well as ex BR
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      > Posted by: "David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)" <davidhalfpenny@...>
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3458 From: grgball Date: 08/09/2017
      Subject: Coventry Electric Museum closing next month
      The Coventry Electric Railway museum is apparently closing.... it's something that I have had on my mind to visit for a long while - and never mqde the effort.  I will try to now!

      The reason I mention it here is that I believe is has one of the ATP-P power cars (that's not the reason I'm visiting - I already saw the driving unit in Crewe )   I just think early electric units are underappreciated versus steam locomotives!

      But if anyone else happens to be 'planning to visit sometime' there is only this weekend and Sunday 8th October before the site is closed.

      No idea what will happen to the exhibits, but I did see  ePetition to try to force the council to make a plan...

      Gordon
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3459 From: Arlen Andra S Bone Date: 10/10/2017
      Subject: Re: N Gauge model of APT-E
      Hi. -I just found out that Rapido/Revolution trains have a thing on their page to see who would be interested in an N gauge RTR model of APT-E -following the successful release of their 00 gauge model! Apparently if enough people are interested for production to go ahead it'll retail around the £200 to £225 mark. Being a modeller of RTC vehicles in N gauge naturally I'm very interested about a RTR model of APT-E in the scale I model in! :) I just thought I'd share the news about the model here 'cos I'm sure other members of this group will be equally interested. Best wishes Arlen Bone. 
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3460 From: r.m.ellsworth@att.net Date: 24/08/2019
      Subject: We're not abandoned, are we?

      I'd like to bring this site back up to activity, as we have a unique group of representative members and it appears the 'worst' of the Yahoo fribbling is over and done.


      If we have moved to groups.io please let me know and send an invite.
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3461 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 24/08/2019
      Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
      Seconded!

      David Halfpenny
      APT Design
      1971-1980

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 02:11, r.m.ellsworth@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



      I'd like to bring this site back up to activity, as we have a unique group of representative members and it appears the 'worst' of the Yahoo fribbling is over and done.


      If we have moved to groups.io please let me know and send an invite.
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3462 From: Peter Tisdale Date: 29/08/2019
      Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
      Keep it going.

      On Saturday, 24 August 2019, 08:59:31 BST, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


       

      Seconded!


      David Halfpenny
      APT Design
      1971-1980

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 02:11, r.m.ellsworth@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



      I'd like to bring this site back up to activity, as we have a unique group of representative members and it appears the 'worst' of the Yahoo fribbling is over and done.


      If we have moved to groups.io please let me know and send an invite.
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3463 From: Philip McGaw Date: 08/10/2019
      Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
      Could I have an invite please?

      Sent from my iPhone

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 08:02, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

       

      Seconded!


      David Halfpenny
      APT Design
      1971-1980

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 02:11, r.m.ellsworth@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



      I'd like to bring this site back up to activity, as we have a unique group of representative members and it appears the 'worst' of the Yahoo fribbling is over and done.


      If we have moved to groups.io please let me know and send an invite.
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 3464 From: David Halfpenny (gmail) Date: 22/10/2019
      Subject: Re: We're not abandoned, are we?
      Philip,

      I cannot find a public APT group anywhere on Groups.io.

      There may be a hidden one of course, but I’d be surprised.

      David 1/2d

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 11:37, Philip McGaw philip@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



      Could I have an invite please?

      Sent from my iPhone

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 08:02, 'David Halfpenny (gmail)' davidhalfpenny@...[Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Seconded!


      David Halfpenny
      APT Design
      1971-1980

      On 24 Aug 2019, at 02:11, r.m.ellsworth@... [Advanced-Passenger-Train] <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



      I'd like to bring this site back up to activity, as we have a unique group of representative members and it appears the 'worst' of the Yahoo fribbling is over and done.


      If we have moved to groups.io please let me know and send an invite.