Messages in Advanced-Passenger-Train group. Page 55 of 68.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2769 From: bendownpls Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: ADVANCE PASSENGER TRAIN THE APT STORY FILM DVD
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2770 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: Pop Train Models
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2771 From: Andy Appleton Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: Rare APT books for sale
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2772 From: Andi Dell Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: Re: Pop Train Models
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2773 From: bendownpls Date: 29/04/2009
Subject: apt-p at crewe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2774 From: Kit Spackman Date: 30/04/2009
Subject: Re: apt-p at crewe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2775 From: Steven James Parkes Date: 30/04/2009
Subject: Re: apt-p at crewe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2776 From: David Halfpenny gmail Date: 30/04/2009
Subject: Re: apt-p at crewe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2777 From: Rob Latham Date: 08/05/2009
Subject: 1:160 APT-E & APT-P Models
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2778 From: Kit Spackman Date: 08/05/2009
Subject: 1:160 APT-E & APT-P Models
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2779 From: Rob Latham Date: 09/05/2009
Subject: 1:160 APT-E & APT-P Models
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2780 From: Andy Appleton Date: 26/05/2009
Subject: APT-P partial re-paint
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2781 From: Paul Leadley Date: 27/05/2009
Subject: Re: APT-P partial re-paint
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2782 From: David Halfpenny gmail Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Fw: Came across this
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2783 From: Paul Leadley Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2784 From: David Halfpenny gmail Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2785 From: Robert M. Ellsworth Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2786 From: Kit Spackman Date: 29/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2787 From: Rob Latham Date: 02/06/2009
Subject: Rocket 150
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2788 From: Andy Appleton Date: 04/06/2009
Subject: APT photos
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2789 From: bendownpls Date: 09/06/2009
Subject: Two Miles a Minute
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2790 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 10/06/2009
Subject: Re: Two Miles a Minute
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2791 From: arthurcannings Date: 13/06/2009
Subject: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2792 From: arthurcannings Date: 13/06/2009
Subject: Re: New rail DVD containing APT footage
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2793 From: bendownpls Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2794 From: Alan Coombe Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2795 From: Andy Appleton Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: APT-E & P photos
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2796 From: Kit Spackman Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2797 From: shane.wilton Date: 15/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2798 From: Kit Spackman Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2799 From: Kit Spackman Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E & P photos
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2800 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2801 From: Graham Harris Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2802 From: Kit Spackman Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E & P photos
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2803 From: shane.wilton Date: 17/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2804 From: Nick Wheat Date: 18/06/2009
Subject: Javelin
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2805 From: Robert M. Ellsworth Date: 18/06/2009
Subject: Re: Javelin
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2806 From: Philip McGaw Date: 18/06/2009
Subject: Re: Javelin
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2807 From: arthurcannings Date: 22/06/2009
Subject: Re: Javelin
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2808 From: Kit Spackman Date: 17/07/2009
Subject: Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2809 From: t.sage Date: 17/07/2009
Subject: Re: Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2810 From: Paul Leadley Date: 22/07/2009
Subject: Re: Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2811 From: alan.criddle Date: 26/07/2009
Subject: YouTube
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2812 From: Alan Coombe Date: 26/07/2009
Subject: APT-E blue colour
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2813 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 27/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2814 From: Kit Spackman Date: 27/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2815 From: Paul Leadley Date: 28/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2816 From: Paul Leadley Date: 28/07/2009
Subject: Not Even APT could do it this fast..........
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2817 From: Alan Coombe Date: 28/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2818 From: Philip McGaw Date: 01/08/2009
Subject: Re: Not Even APT could do it this fast..........


Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2769 From: bendownpls Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: ADVANCE PASSENGER TRAIN THE APT STORY FILM DVD
hi everyone just saw this on ebay if anyones interested.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ADVANCE-PASSENGER-TRAIN-THE-APT-STORY-FILM-DVD_W0QQitemZ320363594829

item number: 320363594829

End time: 30-Apr-09 20:13:27 BST (3 days 21 hours)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2770 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: Pop Train Models
Hi all



Cam across the attached when I was trawling through RMweb last week.
Don't know if these have come up on the group before but they make
interesting reading. I cannot enlarge the POP drawings from the web page
- has anyone seen these and are they accurate



http://www.scalemodeltransfers.co.uk/scalemodeltransfers/drawings/drawin
gs.html

http://www.scalemodeltransfers.co.uk/scalemodeltransfers/customermodels/
customermodels.html



regards





Paul Rowlinson

Head of Operations, London

Sanctuary Management Services

Dinwiddy House, 189-205 Pentonville Road,

London, N1 9NF



Tel: 0207 812 0022

Mob: 07787 834807



Sanctuary Management Services is part of Sanctuary Group



paul.rowlinson@...
<mailto:paul.rowlinson@...>





Sanctuary Group
Chamber Court, Castle Street, Worcester, WR1 3ZQ
Tel: 01905 338600 Fax: 01905 338700

View our disclaimer at: http://www.sanctuary-housing.co.uk/disclaimer.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2771 From: Andy Appleton Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: Rare APT books for sale
Trains in the Eighties 1 Inter-City 125s & APT:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trains-in-the-Eighties-1-Inter-City-125s-APT_W0QQitemZ230338948107

(And the very rare APT bible) APT - A promise unfulfilled:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220401969921


Kindest regards,
Andrew
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2772 From: Andi Dell Date: 27/04/2009
Subject: Re: Pop Train Models
The RMweb discussion came from something I had posted regarding drawings of the skeletal POP train before it was clad. I want to build a model of it in this form but I don't know of any drawings showing it, can anyone help?

I also have a full 14 car P-Train formation built from Hornby models, there are a couple of video clips of it in action on youtube,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr9RU6KAzmE &
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VeysOIq24M

Andi

--- On Mon, 27/4/09, Paul Rowlinson <paul.rowlinson@...> wrote:

> From: Paul Rowlinson <paul.rowlinson@...>
> Subject: <APT Group> Pop Train Models
> To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, 27 April, 2009, 11:13 AM
> Hi all
>
>
>
> Cam across the attached when I was trawling through RMweb
> last week.
> Don't know if these have come up on the group before
> but they make
> interesting reading. I cannot enlarge the POP drawings from
> the web page
> - has anyone seen these and are they accurate
>
>
>
> http://www.scalemodeltransfers.co.uk/scalemodeltransfers/drawings/drawin
> gs.html
>
> http://www.scalemodeltransfers.co.uk/scalemodeltransfers/customermodels/
> customermodels.html
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Rowlinson
>
> Head of Operations, London
>
> Sanctuary Management Services
>
> Dinwiddy House, 189-205 Pentonville Road,
>
> London, N1 9NF
>
>
>
> Tel: 0207 812 0022
>
> Mob: 07787 834807
>
>
>
> Sanctuary Management Services is part of Sanctuary Group
>
>
>
> paul.rowlinson@...
> <mailto:paul.rowlinson@...>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sanctuary Group
> Chamber Court, Castle Street, Worcester, WR1 3ZQ
> Tel: 01905 338600 Fax: 01905 338700
>
> View our disclaimer at:
> http://www.sanctuary-housing.co.uk/disclaimer.html
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> mailto:Advanced-Passenger-Train-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2773 From: bendownpls Date: 29/04/2009
Subject: apt-p at crewe
I`ve just found out that the apt-p at crewe is kept outside and is currently being restored, just standing outside getting ravaged by the elements? and its the only one left?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2774 From: Kit Spackman Date: 30/04/2009
Subject: Re: apt-p at crewe
>I`ve just found out that the apt-p at crewe is kept outside and is
currently being restored, just standing outside getting ravaged by the
elements? and its the only one left? <

Well yes, but it's been like that for some considerable time.

If it wasn't for Rob Latham and his crew working their tails off in
previous years it wouldn't e4ven be as good as it is now. '...being
restored.....' is perhaps a trifle wide of the mark, as the current Railway
Age management decided to go it alone, banished Rob's crew from the site
and then asked for volunteers to do the same job. Crazy or what?

On other APT related matters, the latest issue of Modern Railways, May 2009
issue, has a supplemnet about the WCML Upgrade completion which includes an
article by Roger Ford about Pendelinos and Super Voyagers in which their
tilting capability comes under scrutiny. Mr. Ford displays his
anti-hydraulic bias, and describes the APT tilt team as '.......the
tilting pioneers in the late 1960s coming from the aerospace industry the
first trains, including the British Rail Advanced Passenger Train, used
hydraulic rams to control the movement of the coach bodies....'

<Kit Rant mode on>

Excuse me? Not ONE of the Tilt Development Team came from aerospace, the
designers may have, but we didn't.

And which other tilting trains were around in the 60s anyway? Not to
mention the fact of a lack of any alternative technology at the time. The
current SIG developed all-electric system wasn't trouble free for some
considerable time, and if a similar amount was spent on APT as was spent on
other high speed trains etc etc.

You've all heard that before of course.

He makes play of the relative reliability between the 390s and 221s tilt
system, giving you the impression that hydraulic systems are inherantly
fault prone. I wonder if he's ever flown in an airliner before? There isn't
one single airliner in service today that doesn't use hydraulics to power
its control surfaces, and if APT had had the same level of engeering
applied, and money spent, on its hydraulics the 221s would be just as good
now I suspect.

<Kit Rant mode off>

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2775 From: Steven James Parkes Date: 30/04/2009
Subject: Re: apt-p at crewe
>> and if APT had had the same level of engineering applied

Having worked in engineering functions on both the railway and the aircraft
industry, if Railway Vehicles had the same amount of redundancy built in as
aircraft, there would never be failures.

Rodger Fords comments are usually informed, and balanced.......looks like
this one "might not be so informed"?

SJP

-----Original Message-----
From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kit Spackman
Sent: 30 April 2009 12:00
To: APT Group
Subject: <APT Group> Re: apt-p at crewe

>I`ve just found out that the apt-p at crewe is kept outside and is
currently being restored, just standing outside getting ravaged by the
elements? and its the only one left? <

Well yes, but it's been like that for some considerable time.

If it wasn't for Rob Latham and his crew working their tails off in
previous years it wouldn't e4ven be as good as it is now. '...being
restored.....' is perhaps a trifle wide of the mark, as the current Railway
Age management decided to go it alone, banished Rob's crew from the site
and then asked for volunteers to do the same job. Crazy or what?

On other APT related matters, the latest issue of Modern Railways, May 2009
issue, has a supplemnet about the WCML Upgrade completion which includes an
article by Roger Ford about Pendelinos and Super Voyagers in which their
tilting capability comes under scrutiny. Mr. Ford displays his
anti-hydraulic bias, and describes the APT tilt team as '.......the
tilting pioneers in the late 1960s coming from the aerospace industry the
first trains, including the British Rail Advanced Passenger Train, used
hydraulic rams to control the movement of the coach bodies....'

<Kit Rant mode on>

Excuse me? Not ONE of the Tilt Development Team came from aerospace, the
designers may have, but we didn't.

And which other tilting trains were around in the 60s anyway? Not to
mention the fact of a lack of any alternative technology at the time. The
current SIG developed all-electric system wasn't trouble free for some
considerable time, and if a similar amount was spent on APT as was spent on
other high speed trains etc etc.

You've all heard that before of course.

He makes play of the relative reliability between the 390s and 221s tilt
system, giving you the impression that hydraulic systems are inherantly
fault prone. I wonder if he's ever flown in an airliner before? There isn't
one single airliner in service today that doesn't use hydraulics to power
its control surfaces, and if APT had had the same level of engeering
applied, and money spent, on its hydraulics the 221s would be just as good
now I suspect.

<Kit Rant mode off>

Regards
Kit


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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06:01:00
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2776 From: David Halfpenny gmail Date: 30/04/2009
Subject: Re: apt-p at crewe
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steven James Parkes" <gen@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:22 PM

> Excuse me? Not ONE of the Tilt Development Team came from aerospace, the
> designers may have, but we didn't.

It's true that many APT people had aeronautical backgrounds - the "flutter"
equations and the myriad pop rivets on E-train being symptomatic, but not
the Tilt Teams.

On APT Design, Julian Marshall had been on a course at the Royal College
of Aeronautics, Cranfield (an MSc or similar), but came to BR from HYMAC, a
hydraulic digger company competing with CAT and JCB. Neil Wilson and Brian
Thompson both came from Tilt Development, Bob Carder was a BR Carriage-side
draughtsman and I came from university via Bogie Design. It's possible that
one or two contract draughtsmen had worked on aircraft - I'd ask Hedley
Mayes who lives near me, but he's rather poorly.

The crunch is this: a tilt system transforms a tiny sensor force into a
high fast-acting actuator force. The Achilles' Heel is the Servo Valve
where most of the gain come in, and which needs protecting from dirt in the
oil. Everything else is simple and well understood, with most parts or
components off the shelf, including the failure mode management. Each
vehicle had two actuator systems of course, one at each end, which provided
a measure of redundancy.

Moreover, I designed the tilt linkage such that in the case of total loss
of oil, the vehicle would come upright with respect to the TRACK, not swing
like a pendulum, thereby staying in gauge even at full cant deficiency. Now
that would be a hard trick with many forms of electric actuator.

Many of us will remember the public roastings alternative tilt designers
have had when pressed to describe how their predicted failure modes line up
with tunnels, bridges, and trains on adjoining tracks.

Ford clearly doesn't even know what a "hydraulic ram"* is - there sure
weren't any on APT!

David 1/2d
APT Tilt Design Section

* for non engineering enthusiasts, it's a river-powered automatic water
pump
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2777 From: Rob Latham Date: 08/05/2009
Subject: 1:160 APT-E & APT-P Models
Hi All

just found these models by Jörgen Edgar...

http://www.apt-p.com/APTModelJEdgar.htm

Best wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2778 From: Kit Spackman Date: 08/05/2009
Subject: 1:160 APT-E & APT-P Models
Rob,

What excellent models that guy makes! And in 'N' too!

Where did you find the piccies other than the one with the two power cars
together? I can't find them on his site anywhere.

Regards
Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2779 From: Rob Latham Date: 09/05/2009
Subject: 1:160 APT-E & APT-P Models
Hi Kit

I have uploaded the other photo's to the Yahoo Photo's section of this group.


Rob
www.apt-p.com




--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman <101453.3657@...> wrote:
>
> Rob,
>
> What excellent models that guy makes! And in 'N' too!
>
> Where did you find the piccies other than the one with the two power cars
> together? I can't find them on his site anywhere.
>
> Regards
> Kit
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2780 From: Andy Appleton Date: 26/05/2009
Subject: APT-P partial re-paint
It would appear that the cab ends of the APT-P set at The Railway Age have received a much needed re-paint:
 
 
Take care,
Andy
 
 
 
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2781 From: Paul Leadley Date: 27/05/2009
Subject: Re: APT-P partial re-paint
Looks great, and fantastic to see her getting some much needed TLC.

Regards

Paul
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2782 From: David Halfpenny gmail Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Fw: Came across this
A friend wrote:

>
> Seen it all before?
>
> http://wiki.prov.vic.gov.au/index.php/12800P1-page002513
>
I hadn't.

David 1/2d
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2783 From: Paul Leadley Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
Nope, not seen that pic before, a good find David.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny gmail" <davidhalfpenny@...> wrote:
>
> A friend wrote:
>
> >
> > Seen it all before?
> >
> > http://wiki.prov.vic.gov.au/index.php/12800P1-page002513
> >
> I hadn't.
>
> David 1/2d
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2784 From: David Halfpenny gmail Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
I think there's three in the set. But Australia? D

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Leadley" <PAUL@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:31 AM
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: <APT Group> Re: Fw: Came across this

> Nope, not seen that pic before, a good find David.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny gmail"
> <davidhalfpenny@...> wrote:
>>
>> A friend wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Seen it all before?
>> >
>> > http://wiki.prov.vic.gov.au/index.php/12800P1-page002513
>> >
>> I hadn't.
>>
>> David 1/2d
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2785 From: Robert M. Ellsworth Date: 28/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
... and more directedly, perhaps:

Note the enlightened (and perhaps dangerously optimistic) comments on
these pages -- "Do you think this caption could be better or do [you]
want to add comments or stories about the photograph? Please edit
this page!"

I can think of at least a couple of people who will read this who
could MATERIALLY add meaningful, if not indeed wonderful, comments or
stories to this... Gentlemen, please do!

BTW -- whoever it is that is setting up the Internet archiving and
access tools for the Province of Victoria deserves TREMENDOUS
recognition and approval, I think.


RME
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2786 From: Kit Spackman Date: 29/05/2009
Subject: Re: Fw: Came across this
Robert,

Good suggestion, so I did. <g>

I added a few details about the Swindon APT/HST shot, as much as I had to hand and can remember anyway.

Regards
Kit

(PS My Compuserve email account has died for a bit, thus the odd atributes for this addition)

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Robert M. Ellsworth" <wizlish1@...> wrote:
>
> ... and more directedly, perhaps:
>
> Note the enlightened (and perhaps dangerously optimistic) comments on
> these pages -- "Do you think this caption could be better or do [you]
> want to add comments or stories about the photograph? Please edit
> this page!"
>
> I can think of at least a couple of people who will read this who
> could MATERIALLY add meaningful, if not indeed wonderful, comments or
> stories to this... Gentlemen, please do!
>
> BTW -- whoever it is that is setting up the Internet archiving and
> access tools for the Province of Victoria deserves TREMENDOUS
> recognition and approval, I think.
>
>
> RME
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2787 From: Rob Latham Date: 02/06/2009
Subject: Rocket 150
Hi All

just found this footage on the BBC site -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/steamtrains/7305.shtml?all=2&id=7305

Shame that they had to remove the in action shots :-(


Rob
www.apt-p.com
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2788 From: Andy Appleton Date: 04/06/2009
Subject: APT photos
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2789 From: bendownpls Date: 09/06/2009
Subject: Two Miles a Minute
Hi, I`ve just found this on amazon, anyone read it?

Two Miles a Minute (the story behind the conception and operation of Britain's High Speed and Advanced Passenger Trains)
by Nock O S (Author)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2790 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 10/06/2009
Subject: Re: Two Miles a Minute

I’ve got a copy. It’s a good read from a known author but I would not say it was the definitive work on the subject.

 

regards

 

Paul Rowlinson

Head of Operations, London

Sanctuary Management Services

Dinwiddy House, 189-205 Pentonville Road ,

London , N1 9NF

 

Tel: 0207 812 0022

Mob: 07787 834807

 

Sanctuary Management Services is part of Sanctuary Group

 

paul.rowlinson@...

From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of bendownpls
Sent: 09 June 2009 20:26
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> Two Miles a Minute

 




Hi, I`ve just found this on amazon, anyone read it?

Two Miles a Minute (the story behind the conception and operation of Britain 's High Speed and Advanced Passenger Trains)
by Nock O S (Author)

Click here to report this email as spam to Sanctuary's managed spam filter, Websense Hosted Security. (Do NOT click on 'remove me' or other links from spam as that may confirm your email to the spam sender or lead to malicious websites)

 


Sanctuary Group
Chamber Court, Castle Street, Worcester, WR1 3ZQ
Tel: 01905 338600 Fax: 01905 338700

View our disclaimer at:

http://www.sanctuary-housing.co.uk/disclaimer.html
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2791 From: arthurcannings Date: 13/06/2009
Subject: APT Models???
Is it just me or does anyone on this site think that correct models of the APT-E & APT-P in N gauge (1:148 scale) would be a good seller? I ask this as a friend of mine is looking into the idea of making models for himself & would like to know if there is a potential market out there?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2792 From: arthurcannings Date: 13/06/2009
Subject: Re: New rail DVD containing APT footage
--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Appleton" <APT370@...> wrote:
>
> This looks very interesting:
> http://www.networkdvd.net/product_info.php?products_id=829
>
> Slightly cheaper at Amazon:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railways-Beeching-Beyond-DVD/dp/B001TJKVXM/ref=sr_gnr_fkmr?ie=UTF8&qid=1238609734
>
> Enjoy!
> Andy
>
Hi, I have been reading around the posts on this site, I found the above & checked out the DVD as mentioned, Although there is not a lot of APT footage i found the complete 3 hrs DVD very interesting, in my opinion very highly recomended to those interested in that era.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2793 From: bendownpls Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Im interested......more info pls.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2794 From: Alan Coombe Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Hi all,
 
I would be interested in APT-E if the price was right. Set of resin mouldings would be ideal but would really need the TC windows printed on a strip of clear plastic.
 
Yours,
 
Alan Coombe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:55 PM
Subject: <APT Group> APT Models???

Is it just me or does anyone on this site think that correct models of the APT-E & APT-P in N gauge (1:148 scale) would be a good seller? I ask this as a friend of mine is looking into the idea of making models for himself & would like to know if there is a potential market out there?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2795 From: Andy Appleton Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: APT-E & P photos
Just found these:
 
 
Many thanks to Rob Latham's excellent website for the heads up: http://www.apt-p.com/WhatsNew.htm
 
Take care,
Andy
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2796 From: Kit Spackman Date: 14/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
It depends if he's hoping to make a profit on the deal or not. While there undoubtedly IS a market it may be limited to those on this list alone! Joe Public doesn't really show much interest in such esoteric things, viz. Hornby's relatively small sales of their P-Train when it was in production. Now of course, there is a 'collectors market' for them and the prices are ridiculous.

I'd be interested to know how he's going to fit the motors to the PCs on his E Train. I had the DEVIL of a job finding a motor/axle small enough to get into the PC's sloping body shell, and eventually grafted an ECM Type 1 motor onto the top of a Minitrix Class 33 bogie. Even then the exhaust cowls had to be removable to get to the screws that held the modofied motor bogie to the chassis.

Having said that mine was built to 2 mm scale, 1/152, so he may have just enough space.



--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "arthurcannings" <arthurcannings@...> wrote:
>
> Is it just me or does anyone on this site think that correct models of the APT-E & APT-P in N gauge (1:148 scale) would be a good seller? I ask this as a friend of mine is looking into the idea of making models for himself & would like to know if there is a potential market out there?
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2797 From: shane.wilton Date: 15/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Hi All

I plan to make a 4mm scale model of the APT-E within the next two years, based around a resin shell with etched brass window inserts etc. I made a master for the power car about 10 years ago and some other bits. Then I was diverted onto other things. Time has moved on and I can now have the brass parts made and do the castings. If I design it right I may be able to make it in kit form if there is enough interest. Probably only need about 10-15 people interested to make it worthwhile. May also do the same for the POP train.

Cheers

Shane




--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Kit Spackman" <bosspecops@...> wrote:
>
> It depends if he's hoping to make a profit on the deal or not. While there undoubtedly IS a market it may be limited to those on this list alone! Joe Public doesn't really show much interest in such esoteric things, viz. Hornby's relatively small sales of their P-Train when it was in production. Now of course, there is a 'collectors market' for them and the prices are ridiculous.
>
> I'd be interested to know how he's going to fit the motors to the PCs on his E Train. I had the DEVIL of a job finding a motor/axle small enough to get into the PC's sloping body shell, and eventually grafted an ECM Type 1 motor onto the top of a Minitrix Class 33 bogie. Even then the exhaust cowls had to be removable to get to the screws that held the modofied motor bogie to the chassis.
>
> Having said that mine was built to 2 mm scale, 1/152, so he may have just enough space.
>
>
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "arthurcannings" <arthurcannings@> wrote:
> >
> > Is it just me or does anyone on this site think that correct models of the APT-E & APT-P in N gauge (1:148 scale) would be a good seller? I ask this as a friend of mine is looking into the idea of making models for himself & would like to know if there is a potential market out there?
> >
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2798 From: Kit Spackman Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
Hello Shane,

More power to your elbow! :)

That sounds quite interesting, to say the least, please count me in.

Now POP train is a different kettle of fish. How the devil do you mould or cast all those myriad tubes and still get the thing out of the mould?

Regards
Kit

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "shane.wilton" <shane.wilton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I plan to make a 4mm scale model of the APT-E within the next two years, based around a resin shell with etched brass window inserts etc. I made a master for the power car about 10 years ago and some other bits. Then I was diverted onto other things. Time has moved on and I can now have the brass parts made and do the castings. If I design it right I may be able to make it in kit form if there is enough interest. Probably only need about 10-15 people interested to make it worthwhile. May also do the same for the POP train.
>
> Cheers
>
> Shane
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2799 From: Kit Spackman Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E & P photos
Excellent find there, I've never seen any of those photos before.

It's interesting the E Train Power Car has about 1.5 - 2 degrees of negative tilt and the APT-P Driving Trailer has about the same amount of negative tilt! <g>

The date of the E-Train pic is interesting as it was a month after our first run and yet 3 months before we took her to the Loco Works for re-build 1, and all that time the train was blacked by ASLEF. So how did it get across from the RTC to the Works for the Open Day? I can't remember the event at all, probably because we were trying to design and build the Mk II tilt packs at the time.

Regards
Kit


--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Appleton" <APT370@...> wrote:
>
> Just found these:
>
> http://julianogle.fotopic.net/c1681721_1.html
>
> Many thanks to Rob Latham's excellent website for the heads up: http://www.apt-p.com/WhatsNew.htm
>
> Take care,
> Andy
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2800 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???

Shane

 

Are you producing artwork for etching and at what scale. I am after building a 7mm version. Normally if the drawing is done at 10mm scale it can be reduced to other scales without problem but if you produce to smaller scales and enlarge it don’t work!!!

 

regards

 

Paul Rowlinson

Head of Operations, London

Sanctuary Management Services

Dinwiddy House, 189-205 Pentonville Road ,

London , N1 9NF

 

Tel: 0207 812 0022

Mob: 07787 834807

 

Sanctuary Management Services is part of Sanctuary Group

 

paul.rowlinson@...

From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of shane.wilton
Sent: 15 June 2009 21:53
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> Re: APT Models???

 




Hi All

I plan to make a 4mm scale model of the APT-E within the next two years, based around a resin shell with etched brass window inserts etc. I made a master for the power car about 10 years ago and some other bits. Then I was diverted onto other things. Time has moved on and I can now have the brass parts made and do the castings. If I design it right I may be able to make it in kit form if there is enough interest. Probably only need about 10-15 people interested to make it worthwhile. May also do the same for the POP train.

Cheers

Shane

--- In Advanced-Passenger- Train@yahoogroup s.com, "Kit Spackman" <bosspecops@ ...> wrote:

>
> It depends if he's hoping to make a profit on the deal or not. While there
undoubtedly IS a market it may be limited to those on this list alone! Joe Public doesn't really show much interest in such esoteric things, viz. Hornby's relatively small sales of their P-Train when it was in production. Now of course, there is a 'collectors market' for them and the prices are ridiculous.
>
> I'd be interested to know how he's going to fit the motors to the PCs on
his E Train. I had the DEVIL of a job finding a motor/axle small enough to get into the PC's sloping body shell, and eventually grafted an ECM Type 1 motor onto the top of a Minitrix Class 33 bogie. Even then the exhaust cowls had to be removable to get to the screws that held the modofied motor bogie to the chassis.
>
> Having said that mine was built to 2 mm scale, 1/152, so he may have just
enough space.
>
>
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger- Train@yahoogroup s.com,
"arthurcannings" <arthurcannings@ > wrote:
> >
> > Is it just me or does anyone on this site think that correct models
of the APT-E & APT-P in N gauge (1:148 scale) would be a good seller? I ask this as a friend of mine is looking into the idea of making models for himself & would like to know if there is a potential market out there?
> >
>

Click here to report this email as spam to Sanctuary's managed spam filter, Websense Hosted Security. (Do NOT click on 'remove me' or other links from spam as that may confirm your email to the spam sender or lead to malicious websites)

 


Sanctuary Group
Chamber Court, Castle Street, Worcester, WR1 3ZQ
Tel: 01905 338600 Fax: 01905 338700

View our disclaimer at:

http://www.sanctuary-housing.co.uk/disclaimer.html
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2801 From: Graham Harris Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "shane.wilton" <shane.wilton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I plan to make a 4mm scale model of the APT-E within the next two years, based around a resin shell with etched brass window inserts etc. I made a master for the power car about 10 years ago and some other bits. Then I was diverted onto other things. Time has moved on and I can now have the brass parts made and do the castings. If I design it right I may be able to make it in kit form if there is enough interest. Probably only need about 10-15 people interested to make it worthwhile. May also do the same for the POP train.
>
> Cheers
>
> Shane
>
I was chatting to someone at Mickleover Model Railway Club only last week about whether a OO model of APT-E was feasible. I would certainly be interested if a kit was available (it would go well with my models of the HST Prototype Power Cars).

I'm glad you said "within the next two years" as well. Currently my modelling is firmly based around a Scottish Region exhibition layout.

Graham H.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2802 From: Kit Spackman Date: 16/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E & P photos

My reply about the P-Train Driving Trailer should have read '.....of positive tilt'.

Pity you can't edit the postings after they've been filed.

Regards
Kit

 


--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Kit Spackman" <bosspecops@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent find there, I've never seen any of those photos before.
>
> It's interesting the E Train Power Car has about 1.5 - 2 degrees of negative tilt and the APT-P Driving Trailer has about the same amount of negative tilt! <g>
>
> The date of the E-Train pic is interesting as it was a month after our first run and yet 3 months before we took her to the Loco Works for re-build 1, and all that time the train was blacked by ASLEF. So how did it get across from the RTC to the Works for the Open Day? I can't remember the event at all, probably because we were trying to design and build the Mk II tilt packs at the time.
>
> Regards
> Kit
>
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Appleton" APT370@ wrote:
> >
> > Just found these:
> >
> > http://julianogle.fotopic.net/c1681721_1.html
> >
> > Many thanks to Rob Latham's excellent website for the heads up: http://www.apt-p.com/WhatsNew.htm
> >
> > Take care,
> > Andy
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2803 From: shane.wilton Date: 17/06/2009
Subject: Re: APT Models???
I certainly thinks its feasible. With a lot of research and planning to say the least. Its something I have wanted to do for years. I started to build one in 1985 when the book 'A Promise Unfullfilled' was released but it was a complete disaster. I was to young to make a decent job of it then . The next time was in 1997. I got as far as three vehicles and then ran out of steam, so to speak. I still have all the bits I had made and some of these will form the basis for the new project. I would be greatful for any info when the time comes as I has to be as correct as possible.

Kit, as for the pop train this will be mainly etched brass as its the best way I can think of the replicate this one.

Cheers

Shane










--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Harris" <flood31266@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "shane.wilton" <shane.wilton@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > I plan to make a 4mm scale model of the APT-E within the next two years, based around a resin shell with etched brass window inserts etc. I made a master for the power car about 10 years ago and some other bits. Then I was diverted onto other things. Time has moved on and I can now have the brass parts made and do the castings. If I design it right I may be able to make it in kit form if there is enough interest. Probably only need about 10-15 people interested to make it worthwhile. May also do the same for the POP train.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Shane
> >
> I was chatting to someone at Mickleover Model Railway Club only last week about whether a OO model of APT-E was feasible. I would certainly be interested if a kit was available (it would go well with my models of the HST Prototype Power Cars).
>
> I'm glad you said "within the next two years" as well. Currently my modelling is firmly based around a Scottish Region exhibition layout.
>
> Graham H.
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2804 From: Nick Wheat Date: 18/06/2009
Subject: Javelin
How fast was APT-E 35 years ago?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8106398.stm

Nick
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2805 From: Robert M. Ellsworth Date: 18/06/2009
Subject: Re: Javelin
Nick:


>How fast was APT-E 35 years ago?



Yes, but was APT-E, then or now, suitable as a commuter train?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2806 From: Philip McGaw Date: 18/06/2009
Subject: Re: Javelin
>> How fast was APT-E 35 years ago?
>
> Yes, but was APT-E, then or now, suitable as a commuter train?
>
How far along development was the APT?

what generation is the Javelin? I assume its not a first generation
HST;
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2807 From: arthurcannings Date: 22/06/2009
Subject: Re: Javelin
--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Philip McGaw <philip@...> wrote:
>
> >> How fast was APT-E 35 years ago?
> >
> > Yes, but was APT-E, then or now, suitable as a commuter train?
> >
> How far along development was the APT?
>
> what generation is the Javelin? I assume its not a first generation
> HST;
>
I personaly think that:within the uk
HST & APT-E were the first generation of High speed trains
the APT-P was the second generation
The 91s & Mk4 coaching stock are third generation
The Eurostar & pendilino are fourth
The javelin are the fifth generation.

Comments anyone?
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2808 From: Kit Spackman Date: 17/07/2009
Subject: Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...
For new menmbers......... <g>

Around last Christmas Paul and I started to dig into what had happened to HSFV1, as we thought it had been scrapped. Luckily it turned out we were wrong and this most fundamental of all modern day rail vehicles not only still existed but that its current owners, Serco, were apparently willing to donate it '... to a suitable support group'.

We contacted the NRM, who true to form, had already decided they didn't need it in the collections(I bet they didn't say that about the replica Stephenson's Rocket.......) but we still went ahead with plans to view HSFV1 when both Paul and I were free. That was late January and one of the people at Serco was going to contact us.

Needless to say they didn't or you would have been reading about the vehicle on here MONTHS ago!

Late last week I lost patience with the lack of progress and made attempts to contact Serco with a view to visiting the RTC today, Thursday 16th July, as I was going to be in Derby anyway. After two messages and one mobile phone call I finally made contact last Monday, but I was told the guy who was handling this '.....was very busy'. Presumably he's been 'very busy' constantly since January....

Anyway, this very busy guy was meant to phone me back before I got to Derby today.

Needless to say he didn't so the grand progress on this project since the start of the years has been precisely zero.

Sorry guys, but we did, and still are, trying..........

Regards
Cheesed-off Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2809 From: t.sage Date: 17/07/2009
Subject: Re: Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...
sound about the same as current proges on e-train?
arhh the joys of politics &BS, owners just dont seem to want the little peoples help even though it would benefit them?? same old story!
if all diplomacy fails use a biger bat to hit them with? if only it was that simple.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:15 PM
Subject: <APT Group> Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...

 

For new menmbers.... ..... <g>

Around last Christmas Paul and I started to dig into what had happened to HSFV1, as we thought it had been scrapped. Luckily it turned out we were wrong and this most fundamental of all modern day rail vehicles not only still existed but that its current owners, Serco, were apparently willing to donate it '... to a suitable support group'.

We contacted the NRM, who true to form, had already decided they didn't need it in the collections( I bet they didn't say that about the replica Stephenson's Rocket...... .) but we still went ahead with plans to view HSFV1 when both Paul and I were free. That was late January and one of the people at Serco was going to contact us.

Needless to say they didn't or you would have been reading about the vehicle on here MONTHS ago!

Late last week I lost patience with the lack of progress and made attempts to contact Serco with a view to visiting the RTC today, Thursday 16th July, as I was going to be in Derby anyway. After two messages and one mobile phone call I finally made contact last Monday, but I was told the guy who was handling this '.....was very busy'. Presumably he's been 'very busy' constantly since January....

Anyway, this very busy guy was meant to phone me back before I got to Derby today.

Needless to say he didn't so the grand progress on this project since the start of the years has been precisely zero.

Sorry guys, but we did, and still are, trying...... ....

Regards
Cheesed-off Kit
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2810 From: Paul Leadley Date: 22/07/2009
Subject: Re: Progress, or lack of it, on the HSFV1 project...
Hi All,
Yep, that sounds just about right Kit. In the last few weeks I have been trying to talk to Anthony up at Shildon, with zero out come.

Im beginning to think that there is a vandetta against all us people who support the APT project.

Im on holiday the first week in August, so I think might just take a visit up to Shildon and give them a poke as lets face it, we need some pretty meaty lifting gear for the first job on E train..

I wonder if she has tilted over anymore Kit!!!!

I will keep you posted.

Regards

Paul
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2811 From: alan.criddle Date: 26/07/2009
Subject: YouTube
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2812 From: Alan Coombe Date: 26/07/2009
Subject: APT-E blue colour
Hi all,
 
Was the blue used on the APT-E the same as used on BR locos at that time.
 
Yours,
 
Alan Coombe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2813 From: Paul Rowlinson Date: 27/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour

HI Alan

 

I am fairly confident that it was, but I am sure others will confirm

 

Regards  Paul R

 

Paul Rowlinson

Head of Operations, London

Sanctuary Management Services

Dinwiddy House, 189-205 Pentonville Road ,

London , N1 9NF

 

Tel: 0207 812 0022

Mob: 07787 834807

 

Sanctuary Management Services is part of Sanctuary Group

 

paul.rowlinson@...

From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Alan Coombe
Sent: 26 July 2009 19:53
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> RE:APT-E blue colour

 

 

Hi all,

 

Was the blue used on the APT-E the same as used on BR locos at that time.

 

Yours,

 

Alan Coombe

Click here to report this email as spam to Sanctuary's managed spam filter, Websense Hosted Security. (Do NOT click on 'remove me' or other links from spam as that may confirm your email to the spam sender or lead to malicious websites)

 


Sanctuary Group
Chamber Court, Castle Street, Worcester, WR1 3ZQ
Tel: 01905 338600 Fax: 01905 338700

View our disclaimer at:

http://www.sanctuary-housing.co.uk/disclaimer.html
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2814 From: Kit Spackman Date: 27/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Alan,

As Paul said the stripe was originally Standard BR Blue. We repainted it at least twice while it was 'in service' so the colour was almost certainly from Standard stocks then too, but I'm not sure what it is now.

Paul Leadley may be able to confirm that, or not, as the case may be. Ot certaonly looks the standard colour but a lot of them have become unavailable lately.

Regards
Kit

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Coombe" <a2cmodel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Was the blue used on the APT-E the same as used on BR locos at that time.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alan Coombe
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2815 From: Paul Leadley Date: 28/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Hi All,
yes, the E train strip was stanbdard BR blue, the RTC batch of paint, as far as I have found out from research, was made by Williamsons in Rotherham, they still exsist and they where used to create the present BR blue paint used on E train now. A nice fact for quiz fans there, LOL.

I did the research so that the repaint at the NRM could take place.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Kit Spackman" <bosspecops@...> wrote:
>
> Alan,
>
> As Paul said the stripe was originally Standard BR Blue. We repainted it at least twice while it was 'in service' so the colour was almost certainly from Standard stocks then too, but I'm not sure what it is now.
>
> Paul Leadley may be able to confirm that, or not, as the case may be. Ot certaonly looks the standard colour but a lot of them have become unavailable lately.
>
> Regards
> Kit
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Coombe" <a2cmodel@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Was the blue used on the APT-E the same as used on BR locos at that time.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Alan Coombe
> >
>
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2816 From: Paul Leadley Date: 28/07/2009
Subject: Not Even APT could do it this fast..........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7784179.stm

Just a little bit of fun....

Regards

Paul
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2817 From: Alan Coombe Date: 28/07/2009
Subject: Re: APT-E blue colour
Hi all,
 
Thanks for the confirmation on the colour - been around long enough not to assume things like that.
 
Yours,
 
Alan C
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 2818 From: Philip McGaw Date: 01/08/2009
Subject: Re: Not Even APT could do it this fast..........

For technical reasons a short stretch near Milton Keynes is missing from the route.


Most people would say that was a good thing


On 28 Jul 2009, at 13:37, "Paul Leadley" <PAUL@...> wrote:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/uk/7784179. stm

Just a little bit of fun....

Regards

Paul