Hi All,
I have just email Anthony up at Locomotion about any news for the
workshop, he did say there maybe some news after Christmas.

Lets hope something is on the move, please,,,,,,please!

I will let you know what the answer is.

Regards

Paul

PS. Ive decided to keep up the pressure on the NRM York, as I have
been at war with them for all this time, and got somewhere, I cannot
let them stop the conservation of E train.

Im putting together my own tool kits to take up there if the news
isnt good.

Keep us updated please Paul. I'm sure we have enough tools between us to
re-start work.

Bringing them up from Peterborough on GNER with a change at Darlo might be a
bit hairy, though.

Best Regards,
Adam Warr
http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Leadley
Sent: 22 February 2006 14:05
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> Workshop update for Locomotion.

Hi All,
I have just email Anthony up at Locomotion about any news for the workshop,
he did say there maybe some news after Christmas.

Lets hope something is on the move, please,,,,,,please!

I will let you know what the answer is.

Regards

Paul

PS. Ive decided to keep up the pressure on the NRM York, as I have been at
war with them for all this time, and got somewhere, I cannot let them stop
the conservation of E train.

Im putting together my own tool kits to take up there if the news isnt good.








Yahoo! Groups Links






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Hi all,
This is the latest reply I have had back off Anthony at Shildon,
maybe things could be looking up, lets hope.

He writes : -

Hello Paul,
We are gradually equipping the workshop and hope to be in some
position to be able to sort things around May. There is only me up
here and trying to pull things together isn't always as
straightforward as it may seem, sorting out funding, chasing and
buying equipment and then installing and commissioning it. I hope
now that we are on the home straight.

I think to go forward positively we need to have a meeting between
yourself, my line manager Ed Bartholomew, Jim Rees & I when we have
the facilities for the team to work productively at Shildon and
agree actions which the train needs.
Looking forward to hearing from you and moving onwards.

All the best
Anthony


Well, that sounds better than nothing, I will keep you all posted as
to any news.

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group.

Has anyone got a video of their Hornby APT-P titlting. Or does the
Hornby APT titl at all.

P.S., Why are we listed under "Yahoo! Finanace Groups"

On 25/2/06 12:46 pm, "snyepsp" <snyepsp@...> wrote:

> P.S., Why are we listed under "Yahoo! Finanace Groups"

Because in Yahoo "railway enthusiasts" groups are under "trains and
railroads", which are under "transportation", which is under "business &
finance".

And yes the Hornby APT tilts, but only does it well on tight-radius curves.

Owen

Depends what you mean by 'well'!

A real APT would tilt more on a sharp curve than on a gentle one, so that's OK.

Unfortunately it should also be proportional to speed. If an APT stopped on a curve, whatever its radius, it would be upright. In that case the Hornby model performs very badly on a tight-radius curve.

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 25/02/2006 at 13:54 Owen Hodgson wrote:

>
>
>And yes the Hornby APT tilts, but only does it well on tight-radius curves.
>
>Owen
>
>

Gerry,

>Unfortunately it should also be proportional to speed. If an APT stopped

on a curve, >whatever its radius, it would be upright. In that case the
Hornby model performs very >badly on a tight-radius curve.<

Indeed. I recall stopping at a station south of Leicester (Wellingborough?)
in E-Train once. The station was on a tight curve and of course we stopped
perfectly upright. The 'real railway' passengers waiting for the following
train were not only boggled by the fact that it was E-Train that stopped,
but one guy said to me 'Why doesn't your train lean over like normal ones?'
<g>

I didn't have time to explain the fine nuances of train tilting before we
had to leave.

Regards
Kit

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@...> wrote:
I recall stopping at a station south of Leicester (Wellingborough?)

> in E-Train once. The station was on a tight curve and of course we

stopped

> perfectly upright. The 'real railway' passengers waiting for the

following

> train were not only boggled by the fact that it was E-Train that

stopped,

> but one guy said to me 'Why doesn't your train lean over like normal

ones?'

> <g>
>
>I remember being on a train back from Carnforth in the '80s that

stopped on a similar curve when there was suddenly a loud 'clang' as
an enamel station sign someone had bought tipped over. I remember
thinking to myself that wouldn't happen on APT..

APT-P photos by Richard Hobson:

 

http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourRHobson.htm

 

Enjoy!

Andy

--
This email has been verified as Virus free
Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

I've just uploaded The Railway Age collection of BR Official APT Colour
photo's see -

www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourTheRailwayAgeCollection.htm

and The Colin Ledsome collection is at

www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryCL.htm

Best wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

HAHAHAHAHA,

Brilliant!

Regards

Paul

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4801928.stm

Kit, or anyone else - can you throw any light on this?!

Mark

Attachments :

On 13 Mar 2006, at 22:56, Mark Drury wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4801928.stm
>
> Kit, or anyone else - can you throw any light on this?!

Been doing the rounds for ages, this - hardly fresh news, Mr BBC!

I think I posted something on here a year or two back.

Nick

--

Mark

In the early '70s BR Research still had much of the atmosphere of an academic institution. Associated with this there was a bit of a culture of 'patent-it-quick', usually connected with ideas developed within existing projects so that no other organisation could get in first and leave BR in the situation of paying royalties on essential aspects of new developments. It was important that projects could go ahead without external hindrance in the form of other people's patents.

Charles Frederick's patent application was obviously somewhat outside this sphere of activity and, being directly opposed to this principal, could be considered as predatory. It must have been decided that such a design of propulsion system might be possible in the not-too-distant future and, since a patent could be couched in fairly woolly terms, it was possible that BR could reap royalties from such development if it owned the necessary patent.

It might also indicate that some sections of BR Research were not on the same planet as the rest of us! Clouds and cuckoos come to mind!

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 13/03/2006 at 22:56 Mark Drury wrote:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4801928.stm
>
>Kit, or anyone else - can you throw any light on this?!
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been verified as Virus free
>Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

Been discussed here, as Nick Wheat said. Also recently on uk.railway,
where Peter Fox (Platform 5) gave this explanation:

"Charles Frederick was my ultimate boss at BR research. The idea that BR was
developing flying saucers is a press invention.

"Charles's hobby was space travel and he developed his ideas in his own
time. However the terms of his employment with BR required him to register
any invention as a BR one. It's as simple as that."

According to Peter, they all had a laugh about it at the time. End of
story...

Cheers, Howard.

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Sprenger"
<hsprenger@...> wrote:

> According to Peter, they all had a laugh about it at the time. End of
> story...
>
> Cheers, Howard.
>

This did the rounds on some of the whinier right-wing blogs last year
as an example of how our tax money is (was?) wasted. But as I pointed
out then, the patent was filed just in time for a certain first day of
a certain month...

(But as we all now know, people who work in the public sector aren't
allowed to have a bit of a laugh and maybe build morale, unlike their
private sector counterparts, who routinely p*** away thousands.)

Ah yes, that one again.......

I do have a slight link with it, in that my wife Mary filed the application
in the RTC Registry. She and I weren't together at that time but we later
came across it as a news item somewhere, and she told me about then.

When it resurfaced this week we both hysterics over our breakfast..........
<g>

'Oh no, not THAT again??????' etc etc.

Regards
Kit

And was it serious or someone's idea of a joke?

>
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:36:46 -0500
> From: Kit Spackman <101453.3657@...>
>Subject: BR's nuclear powered UFO
>
>Ah yes, that one again.......
>
>I do have a slight link with it, in that my wife Mary filed the application
>in the RTC Registry. She and I weren't together at that time but we later
>came across it as a news item somewhere, and she told me about then.
>
>When it resurfaced this week we both hysterics over our breakfast..........
><g>
>
>'Oh no, not THAT again??????' etc etc.
>
>Regards
>Kit
>
>

>And was it serious or someone's idea of a joke?<

Oh no, it was deadly serious. In those days people patented anything that
even had a glimmer of possible use somewhere, somewhen.............

Regards
Kit

As I pointed out on the 14th!

Cheers

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 17/03/2006 at 13:33 Kit Spackman wrote:

>>And was it serious or someone's idea of a joke?<
>
>Oh no, it was deadly serious. In those days people patented anything that
>even had a glimmer of possible use somewhere, somewhen.............
>
>Regards
>Kit
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been verified as Virus free
>Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

As of today the transport minister in U.K. decides that the U.K.
Doese'nt need a dedicated passenger train line.
Inspite of all reports to the contrary.
Hmmm Iwonder how you folks feel about this?
Question #2. would the APT been suitable for performance on a high
speed line....
It seems that if it could operate at 200-250 kph on an existing line
it's performance may have been even higher on a new line.
Could a train with simular weight and with better propulsion
technology reduce the cost by building a central line through the U.K.
between London and Birmingham. for instance and then using conecting
up graded existing track , with tilt. help reduce journey times enough
to make the Costs of the upgrade Viable in the short term?

There would be no difference between the performance of an APT on a new line and its performance on an old line, apart from the opportunity to use maximum performance over the whole length of the new line rather than designated stretches of the old line. In other words, despite the fact that the design of the APT enabled it to reach maximum speed on other than ideally aligned track there would be places on the old line where even APT was restricted so a new well-aligned route would enable continuous use of maximum speed.

In such circumstances tilt might not be required but an APT would have the advantage over a non-tilting train in that it could operate at higher speeds on connecting routes off the new line.

Alistair Darling appears to have been given the remit of stamping on any long term investments in transport and has done such to the Liverpool tram scheme on the excuse that costs have increased, whereas the only increase has been in line with inflation. Millions of pounds are spent on studies and design work, only for this to be utterly wasted by the blinkered attitude of any shade of government to such projects. I am not surprised that the idea of a new high-speed line should fall into this category.

Cheers

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 19/03/2006 at 20:35 spacewriter_ranger wrote:

>As of today the transport minister in U.K. decides that the U.K.
>Doese'nt need a dedicated passenger train line.
>Inspite of all reports to the contrary.
>Hmmm Iwonder how you folks feel about this?
>Question #2. would the APT been suitable for performance on a high
>speed line....
>It seems that if it could operate at 200-250 kph on an existing line
>it's performance may have been even higher on a new line.
>Could a train with simular weight and with better propulsion
>technology reduce the cost by building a central line through the U.K.
>between London and Birmingham. for instance and then using conecting
>up graded existing track , with tilt. help reduce journey times enough
>to make the Costs of the upgrade Viable in the short term?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been verified as Virus free
>Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

Attachments :

In the 1980s there was a vision of APTs heading for Paris via the Channel Tunnel...

 

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry Bates" <gerry@...> wrote:

>
> There certainly was, although these documents are probably from a decade earlier.

> On 22/03/2006 at 16:57 Andy Appleton wrote:
> In the 1980s there was a vision of APTs heading for Paris via the Channel Tunnel...
>

Thanks for these Gerry - certainly some pertinent paragraphs:

"Although the [high-speed] infrastructure will be available on the British side from the
opening of the Tunnel, there is no firm date for the opening of the new Paris-Nord line
which will provide the new high-speed infrastructure from the French Tunnel portal..."

How times change!


Owen

Yes, I didn't spot the irony in that paragraph until I'd despatched the previous message.

Cheers

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 22/03/2006 at 19:02 Owen Hodgson wrote:

>--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry Bates"
><gerry@...> wrote:
>>
>> There certainly was, although these documents are probably from a decade
>earlier.
>
>> On 22/03/2006 at 16:57 Andy Appleton wrote:
>> In the 1980s there was a vision of APTs heading for Paris via the
>Channel Tunnel...
>>
>
>Thanks for these Gerry - certainly some pertinent paragraphs:
>
>"Although the [high-speed] infrastructure will be available on the British
>side from the
>opening of the Tunnel, there is no firm date for the opening of the new
>Paris-Nord line
>which will provide the new high-speed infrastructure from the French
>Tunnel portal..."
>
>How times change!
>
>
>Owen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been verified as Virus free
>Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

Very interesting, I'm also impressed with the unit number 372 045 which
would have meant "at least" 45 of them in service = heaven!

Thanks,
Peter

-------

>In the 1980s there was a vision of APTs heading for Paris via the Channel
>Tunnel...
>
>http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p27122848.html

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

Really great site,thanks




--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Appleton"
<AndyAppleton@...> wrote:

>
> In the 1980s there was a vision of APTs heading for Paris via the

Channel Tunnel...

>
> http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p27122848.html
>
> Enjoy!
> Andy
>
> http://AA-Rail-Pics.fotopic.net
>

Hello folks.
Ihave been hearing and reading stories about the
development of the new High speed - Intercirty 125 replacement and I'
am beginiing to wonder something.
Are we about to see the development of a new train that would also have
electric versions Including trains capable of operating on a new high
speed rail line as had been suggested elswere.
Perhaps say runnin on both existing and new lines .
For example .The train could operate as an intercity 225 sucsessor as
well .
If the train could operate as a hHybrid train it might be possile to
run some of the Kings Cross Aberdine trains By way of the High speed
line Could some added upgrading ruduce the K.C. ABurdine time to four
hours50 minutes?
Aversion of the Intercity 225 was proposed as a tilting tain that could
run at near 200 miles an hour![Any one know more about the U.K.Limited
Proposal?] At any rate, the HST was to be dvised as
a "stopgap"solution untill various models of apt could be built.
Could technical improvments that have ocurred since the 1970's help
facilitate that original vision comming true after all?

• New trailer cars. These needn't be dissimilar to Mk 3 coaches but we must learn from Japanese advances in vehicle structures. Their figures for vehicle weight per passenger are way below ours. This is a important ecological factor as it affects fuel consumption and thus carbon dioxide emmisions.
  
  I would avoid the possibility of tilt as this produces a restricted passenger environment. (Compare a Voyager with an Adelante).
  
• New diesel and electric power cars.
  
• New driving trailer vehicles

1. Diesel power car + trailer cars + driving trailer = standard diesel version
   
2. Electric power car + trailer cars + driving trailer = standard (high speed) electric version
   
3. Diesel power car + trailer cars + diesel power car = high speed diesel version
   
4. Electric power car + trailer cars + diesel power car = electro/diesel version, able to operate under the wires for large distances but continue onto non-electrified lines (eg Kings Cross - Aberdeen or Euston - Holyhead.
   
   If the idea of dragging a 'dead' (dead-weight!) power car for large distances did not appeal I don't discount the scenario of changing power cars en route.

Hi All

today I received the following query -

"Have just found your APT page, did you ever come across an article
in a magazine quite some time ago about using the Hornby coaches to
cut and shut and produce the correct articulated coaches for the set.
We have done this years ago and have got some more spare coaches and
would like to do some more but cannot get hold of the article.

Regards
Mick"

and I wondered if anyone here had seen the article? - Please let me
know!


Best wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

Rob - there was an article in British Railway Modelling in the late
1990's that featured an article on a layout of part of the WCML (it
had a hornby APT at full tilt on the cover). In the article there
was a picture of a full length APT with articulated coaches per cut
and shut fashion but it only gave brief details of how to do it
(they said they made the non artic coach from the left overs!). I
have a copy somewhere in the loft...

Simon


--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Latham"
<rob@...> wrote:

>
> Hi All
>
> today I received the following query -
>
> "Have just found your APT page, did you ever come across an

article

> in a magazine quite some time ago about using the Hornby coaches

to

> cut and shut and produce the correct articulated coaches for the

set.

> We have done this years ago and have got some more spare coaches

and

> would like to do some more but cannot get hold of the article.
>
> Regards
> Mick"
>
> and I wondered if anyone here had seen the article? - Please let

me

> know!
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
> Rob
> www.apt-p.com
>

Hi All,
Just a quick note to say, Ive now, after a long wait, posted all the
western region intercom tapes.

Hope you enjoy.

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group

Sorry people, I forgot the link...........

http://www.apt-e.org/trials/trials.htm

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group

Paul,

>Just a quick note to say, Ive now, after a long wait, posted all the
>western region intercom tapes.<

Oooer, nostalgia rules OK.

I hope it doesn't include the bit where I'm swearing at the guy who parked
a van in line with a milepost................

Regards
Kit

Hm, Ive edited them to just the start and stop of the runs, Kit.

I think I need to add a section called "Kit and the use of English"

I should also add the calculator reference, which I only listened to
on Sunday, really funny.

"I will get the brake mans finger and push the buttons, but the answer
is still the same", classic Kit.

Regards

Paul

Hi all

I've just come across this in a old copy of Private Eye


http://www.apt-p.com/PrivateEye.jpg

Rob
www.apt-p.com

Just got the NDM I have been building into the Trainz railway simulator
for the first time today :¬)

The texturing is only half done, and it's only got 50% of the (original)
pantograph in place, but it still looks the business. (Once I get the
texturing straightened out a bit more, I'll get a screenshot on the web
for you all to look at).

Now I need to make it do the business as well - for which I need some
performance data. I know the nominal 4000HP rating, and the design speed
of 155mph, but a couple of other datapoints would be useful to make it
perform like the real thing.

The two datapoints I can normally find for most locos are the rated
Maximum Tractive Effort and Continuous Tractive Effort (and the speed at
which this latter is recorded). A TE vs Speed curve would be the holy
grail, but I normally expect to plot those myself from those datapoints.

Sadly, none of the usual sources for this kind of thing list the APT -
it's obviously not close enough to a loco to be of interest to them :¬(
Google doesn't seem to know either.

Does anyone have this information (or anything else that would be useful
to build an enginespec?). Thanks in advance,

James Moody
--
aka: Major Denis Bloodnok | (¯\
ICQ: 7000473 | \ \ /¯)
http://www.vsr.org.uk | \ \___/ /
No more can they keep us in | |/ _)| )
Listen, damn it, we will win | ( (|_| )
They see it right, they see it well | \ /
But they think this saves us from our hell | |====|

James,

>Now I need to make it do the business as well - for which I need some

performance data.<

I think the answer is in a book I have at home. Infortunately I'm in Italy
for the week.....

Watch this space.

Regards
Kit

Some interesting photos have recently been added to the APT.com site which I
have a few questions about, first of all:

http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourNThexton.htm

Where did this derailment take place? Anyone know why the train derailed?
Was there much damage?

Also:

http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourASalmon.htm

What is that weird shaped red 'thing' in the top two photos? And was the
other red coach taken from an APT set? Why was a test train still running
when there were three sets 'on test/in service?' at the same time??

Lots of questions so thanks in advance if anyone can help me out.

Thank you,
Ian

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!
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Ian

If it's the same one, the derailment I recall happened as a result of the failure of the bolts holding the hydrokinetic brake casing together. Imagine a flanged cylinder bolted between two conical casings which taper down to the wheels.

Fortunately, the vehicles remained upright and no great damage was caused.

Maybe Kit can cast more light on the event but he will certainly enlighten you regarding the "weird shaped red 'thing' ", which was very much his baby!

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 16/05/2006 at 11:21 Ian Ellis wrote:

>Some interesting photos have recently been added to the APT.com site
>which I
>have a few questions about, first of all:
>
>http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourNThexton.htm
>
>Where did this derailment take place? Anyone know why the train derailed?
>Was there much damage?
>
>Also:
>
>http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourASalmon.htm
>
>What is that weird shaped red 'thing' in the top two photos? And was the
>other red coach taken from an APT set? Why was a test train still running
>when there were three sets 'on test/in service?' at the same time??
>
>Lots of questions so thanks in advance if anyone can help me out.
>
>Thank you,
>Ian
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters!
>http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been verified as Virus free
>Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

Kit Spackman wrote:

> James,
>
>> Now I need to make it do the business as well - for which I need some
>> performance data.
>
> I think the answer is in a book I have at home. Infortunately I'm in Italy
> for the week.....
>
> Watch this space.

Sounds very interesting, thanks. Consider this space thoroughly watched ;¬)

James Moody
--
aka: Major Denis Bloodnok | (¯\
ICQ: 7000473 | \ \ /¯)
http://www.vsr.org.uk | \ \___/ /
No more can they keep us in | |/ _)| )
Listen, damn it, we will win | ( (|_| )
They see it right, they see it well | \ /
But they think this saves us from our hell | |====|

Ian,

Oh yes, I'm sure Kit will tell you everything you need to know when he returns from Itay, a little bird tells me he knows a thing or two about the POP train!!!!

In the mean time, here's some photos of that " weird shaped red 'thing' " without it's skin...

http://www.apt-e.org/kit/option1.htm

Enjoy!
Andy

http://www.AA-Rail-Pics.fotopic.net

- - - - - - - - - - -
Sent via BlackBerry
- - - - - - - - - - -

James Moody wrote:

> The texturing is only half done, and it's only got 50% of the (original)
> pantograph in place, but it still looks the business. (Once I get the
> texturing straightened out a bit more, I'll get a screenshot on the web
> for you all to look at).

Please excuse the random untextured grey bits, and the random missing
pieces, but here it is:

http://www.vsr.org.uk/screenshots/forum/APT_NDM_06.jpg

James Moody
--
aka: Major Denis Bloodnok | (¯\
ICQ: 7000473 | \ \ /¯)
http://www.vsr.org.uk | \ \___/ /
No more can they keep us in | |/ _)| )
Listen, damn it, we will win | ( (|_| )
They see it right, they see it well | \ /
But they think this saves us from our hell | |====|