Today's news: "The UK's first 125mph tilting train...":

http://www.itv.com/news/index_374502.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan

To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:29 PM

Subject: <APT Group> How many more times?

Today's news: "The UK's first 125mph tilting train...":

  http://www.itv.com/news/index_374502.html

With tilting trains in the news again, I have turned my thoughts to how
the APT might have looked if it went into production in the mid-1980s.
The eventual train I have created here is very similar to the InterCity
225, though is fully tilting and built to the APT body profile.
Thoughts, please?

http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7719084.html

Getting tempted to convert some GF MkIVs now!!!

Regards,
Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
Electra Railway Graphics
www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Fotopic Site:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/

Nice. Now repaint them in GNER colours.

I am thinking of producing an APT-P in Virgin colours.

Sorry, Adam, you weren't there first! Look at p106 of Hugh Williams' "APT: A Promise Unfulfilled".

Regards

Gerry Bates

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 21/09/04 at 10:34 Adam Warr wrote:

>With tilting trains in the news again, I have turned my thoughts to how
>the APT might have looked if it went into production in the mid-1980s.
>The eventual train I have created here is very similar to the InterCity
>225, though is fully tilting and built to the APT body profile.
>Thoughts, please?
>
>http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7719084.html
>
>Getting tempted to convert some GF MkIVs now!!!
>
>Regards,
>Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
>Electra Railway Graphics
>www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
>Fotopic Site:
>http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/
>
>
>
>
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If one voted correctly, what prize does one get?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

I will have them to think on that one.

Maybe I will tell those luck people a time and a place!

Regards

Paul

Hi Gerry,

Damn! My source has been exposed!!!!

Regards,
Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
Electra Railway Graphics
www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Fotopic Site:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Bates [mailto:gerry@...]
Sent: 21 September 2004 11:39
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: <APT Group> Fotopic Update - Flights of Fancy...APT


Sorry, Adam, you weren't there first! Look at p106 of Hugh Williams'
"APT: A Promise Unfulfilled".

Regards

Gerry Bates

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 21/09/04 at 10:34 Adam Warr wrote:

>With tilting trains in the news again, I have turned my thoughts to how
>the APT might have looked if it went into production in the mid-1980s.
>The eventual train I have created here is very similar to the InterCity
>225, though is fully tilting and built to the APT body profile.
>Thoughts, please?
>
>http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7719084.html
>
>Getting tempted to convert some GF MkIVs now!!!
>
>Regards,
>Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
>Electra Railway Graphics
>www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
>Fotopic Site:
>http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/
>
>
>
>

>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been verified as Virus free
>Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net




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Hi I'm new to this group but have what might be a stupid question
(here goes)

Will the APT-E powercars fit under that low bridge ? it looked mighty
tight on the video

Ralph

Welcome to the group Ralph,

I was also thinking (worrying!) about PC1 & PC2 fitting under the
low bridge, which begs the question: Are the power cars being moved
to Shildon by road????

We'll just have to wait & see!
Andy


--- Original Message ---

Hi I'm new to this group but have what might be a stupid question
(here goes)

Will the APT-E powercars fit under that low bridge ? it looked
mighty tight on the video.

Ralph,

>Will the APT-E powercars fit under that low bridge ? it looked mighty
>tight on the video<

No, that's why they are being towed across to the Thrall site to be put on
road trailers.

TC1 had about 1/2" of clearance under the bridge as it stood, so PC1 and 2
stand no chance.

Regards
Kit

I got really tee'd off by the usual media rubbish about 'first 125 mph
tilting trains' so I emailed ITV as below. I bet I don't get a reply of any
sort................

---------------------------------------

'The UK's first 125mph tilting train has made the trip..................'

ref :- http://www.itv.com/news/britain_374502.html

In a word, rubbish..............

The UK's first 125 mph tilting train was the Advanced Passenger Train,
wholly British designed, built and developed, and it first ran in passenger
service on 7th December 1981. I know because I was one of the only 13 fare
paying passengers on board and I still have the ticket to prove it.

The APT-P may well have had it's problems, but it was running at 125 mph,
and tilting, over 20 years ago. After the initial troublesome period, well
publicised by the media, the APT-P ran to schedule and quite reliably, but
of course this was ignored by the media, as usual.

Please get your facts straight in future.

And yes, I am wholly biased about the APT (see suffix to my signature....)

Kit Spackman
(former tilt system development engineer APT-E)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Nothing majorly new :-)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3674574.stm

...locking brakes? What is it with tilting trains and locking brakes?
The two seem to go together like ham and eggs.

----- Original Message -----

From: Kit Spackman

To: INTERNET:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:52 PM

Subject: <APT Group> ITV on APT

I got really tee'd off by the usual media rubbish about 'first 125 mph
tilting trains' so I emailed ITV as below. I bet I don't get a reply of any
sort................

---------------------------------------

'The UK's first 125mph tilting train has made the trip..................'

ref :- http://www.itv.com/news/britain_374502.html

In a word, rubbish..............

The UK's first 125 mph tilting train was the Advanced Passenger Train,
wholly British designed, built and developed, and it first ran in passenger
service on 7th December 1981. I know because I was one of the only 13 fare
paying passengers on board and I still have the ticket to prove it.

The APT-P may well have had it's problems, but it was running at 125 mph,
and tilting, over 20 years ago. After the initial troublesome period, well
publicised by the media, the APT-P ran to schedule and quite reliably, but
of course this was ignored by the media, as usual.

Please get your facts straight in future.

And yes, I am wholly biased about the APT (see suffix to my signature....)

Kit Spackman
(former tilt system development engineer APT-E)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

>...locking brakes? What is it with tilting trains and locking brakes?
>The two seem to go together like ham and eggs.<

They do, well almost anyway.

You don't need tilt if you're going to go slow, so by definition almost all
tilting trains are quick. Quick trains, especially tilting ones, need to
run on tracks with slow trains so they need to stop faster than a normal
train. Therefore the liklihood of locking brakes are much greater.

Gerry, an excellent response, nice one. <g>

Regards
Kit

Sure, I understand your point: Tilting trains tilt to maintain
passenger comfort whilst cornering at high than normal speeds, and
obviously the higher speeds require greater braking effort.

But this is not new. Each time railway speeds have increased, newer
better brakes have been required. Both APT-E and APT-P increased
railway speeds significantly and thus required a newer better brake,
and unsurprisingly both suffered a degree of brake problems, but that
was over 20 years ago.

I am very surprised that with today's computers, with past
experience
and knowledge, and the fact that the Virgin Pendolinos are not new
technology nor do they significantly increase railway speeds, that
locking brakes are still a problem.

I get the feeling that in the coming weeks we will see a picture of a
Pendolino with a tilt failure.

Uh oh – I think I'm starting to sound like the press.

Alan,

>I am very surprised that with today's computers, with past experience and

knowledge, and the fact >that the Virgin Pendolinos are not new technology
nor do they significantly increase railway >speeds, that locking brakes are
still a problem.<

The problem may lie in the UK's archaic track and signal infrastructure.
We're still living with very short sections between signals, comparitively
speaking, which require the trains to stop very quickly. Of course the
ultimate limiting factor is still the steel wheel on steel rails, not
exactly the highest friction match on the planet. The combination of the
two results in almost impossible demands on the brakes.

At one stage APT-P was planned to use 'double block' working, needing twice
the distance to stop in, but that required in-cab signalling which never
got off the ground properly. Why that isn't used now I've no idea, it
should be a doddle with todays technology.

If they can put down umpteen transponders to tell the train when to tilt
and when not to I'd have thought that additional ones to tell it to stop or
not stop wouldn't be too difficult, but then I'm only a hydraulics
engineer.......... <g>

Regards
Kit

Hi all,
As of Tuesday this week, the E train is now back together again.

PC1 and PC2 are now sharing a common bogie, although due to a reason
I haven't had time time look into yet, the drawbars dont meet.

Ive taken some pictures and video and will try and update the
website over the weekend, also to include the splitting of the rest
of the train.

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group

PS. Well Done to everyone who guest right in the pole!

Hey, that's unfair - Ian Ellis wasn't just 'warm' he was bang-on.

I too thought that PC1 and PC2 would be joined together, before Ian
Ellis posted his suggestions, but after they were described as
merely 'warm' I abandoned the idea.

Tut, sigh.

Well true, BUT..................

ok, I will spill the beans...............are you ready.

E train is going to be shunted out of the NRM, up the ECML, under
Clifton bridge, a distance of about three miles, then crossed over
so that it can be return shunted into Thralls yard, at which point
the train will be split again and low loaded.

Gonna be on the train when that happens........with luck, as we need
to keep an eye on the steering beams and the gauge.

We need to get the drawbar connected before this can happen.

Well it got you all going for a week or so.

Regards

Paul


--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Alan" <yahoo@h...>
wrote:

> Hey, that's unfair - Ian Ellis wasn't just 'warm' he was bang-on.
>
> I too thought that PC1 and PC2 would be joined together, before

Ian

> Ellis posted his suggestions, but after they were described as
> merely 'warm' I abandoned the idea.
>
> Tut, sigh.

Hi Paul

By that I guess that E-Train won't be at Shildon for the opening day
tomorrow ? - if not I'll abandon my plan to visit.

Also do you know if the P-Train power car has been painted yet ?

Best Wishes


Rob

Hi Rob,
No, she will not be there until the mid - later part of next month,
mainly because the old girl didnt want to come apart after all this
time.

TC1 and TC2 are already there so just waiting for the powercars.

Sadly no, the P train powercar hasnt been painted, as far as I know.

I am gonna go to Shildon when she gets there, thats unless Im
invited to put her back together again, which we havent yet!!!!

Regards

Paul

Hi Paul

thanks for your quick response - I'll delay my visit then ! - perhaps
come when you start having work days there ?

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Paul Leadley

To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:13 PM

Subject: <APT Group> Re: PC1 and PC2 joined at last, well very very nearly.

Hi Rob,
No, she will not be there until the mid - later part of next month,
mainly because the old girl didnt want to come apart after all this
time.

TC1 and TC2 are already there so just waiting for the powercars.

Sadly no, the P train powercar hasnt been painted, as far as I know.

I am gonna go to Shildon when she gets there, thats unless Im
invited to put her back together again, which we havent yet!!!!

Regards

Paul

How do Pendolinos and Super Voyagers know how much to tilt ? do the
balises tell them ? or do they have some sort of sensor on board like
the APT-P (I've looked at http://www.apt-p.com/apttiltsystem.htm )

Many thanks


Ralph

----- Original Message -----

 

How do Pendolinos and Super Voyagers know how much to tilt ? do the
balises tell them ? or do they have some sort of sensor on board like
the APT-P (I've looked at http://www.apt-p.com/apttiltsystem.htm )

Many thanks

Ralph

Ralph, see message 1167:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/message/1167

 

Andy

----- Original Message -----

 

How do Pendolinos and Super Voyagers know how much to tilt ? do the
balises tell them ? or do they have some sort of sensor on board like
the APT-P (I've looked at http://www.apt-p.com/apttiltsystem.htm )

Many thanks

Ralph

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Brian,

> As this is the last APT-P to survive surely it should not be left like

this? <

In a word, money...........

I'm sure Rob will have something to say about this too, but the primary
reason is that there isn't anyone who has enough spare money and the wil to
use it to restore the P-Train.

>It seems to me that the rest of the world recognise the importance the APT

project and trains had >on high speed rail travel why can't the British. <

Because successive Governments don't give a fig for Britain's engineering
capability, let alone it's heritage. If Maggie Thatcher even knew what
'Advanced Passenger Train' meant we wouldn't be in the state we are now.

>I feel that APT-P should be put undercover and maintained. If the steam

trains etc can be kept >shiny and looking like new then why can P-train
especially as people spent money and time to >bring her upto a respectable
condit!ion<

Because there aren't enough people with enough money to care.

>and I hope that after her repaint E-train will not be allowed to get into

a state!!<

Same answer. The NRM didn't give a fig for E-Train's state for 26 years. If
Paul hadn't badgered them time and time again she'd probably have been
scrapped by now, and even that would have been 'covered up'. The Support
Group are seen as nuisances at York, I'm sure many of the staff there are
only too glad to see E-Train en route to Shildon as they won't have to 'put
up' with her or us any more. The repaint was only done because there was an
open day coming up, and only Paul's trickery with the primer blothes got
the bogies painted even then!

>I personally would like to see the p-train in an oporational state.<

Wouldn't we all? But the answer lies in my tirade above, money.

Sorry to be so negative, but it REALLY makes me mad when such important
artifacts are treated like junk by the very people who are charged with
looking after them.

Regards
Kit
<pissed-off mode off........>

i agree with brian and most of you about the apt-p train. i think that
shildon should have also had the apt-p with the apt-e trains together
undercover. i know the apt-e train is now at shildont well i think its all
in there now. but the apt-p looks as if its rotting away. To be very honest
i feel a little ashamed about the current govenment and past ones as they
say things with good intention then when they get into power they dont want
to know about anything espeically the current state of the railway network.
if this govenment was like say france or the netherlands then the
railnetwork would be far better maintained and even if old equipment like
the apt-p which is a heritage piece of engineering and a mile stone in
railway history would be maintained and kept under cover.

nigel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kit Spackman" <101453.3657@...>
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 12:23 AM
Subject: <APT Group> State of APTs


> Brian,
>
>> As this is the last APT-P to survive surely it should not be left like
> this? <
>
> In a word, money...........
>
> I'm sure Rob will have something to say about this too, but the primary
> reason is that there isn't anyone who has enough spare money and the wil
> to
> use it to restore the P-Train.
>
>>It seems to me that the rest of the world recognise the importance the APT
> project and trains had >on high speed rail travel why can't the British. <
>
> Because successive Governments don't give a fig for Britain's engineering
> capability, let alone it's heritage. If Maggie Thatcher even knew what
> 'Advanced Passenger Train' meant we wouldn't be in the state we are now.
>
>>I feel that APT-P should be put undercover and maintained. If the steam
> trains etc can be kept >shiny and looking like new then why can P-train
> especially as people spent money and time to >bring her upto a respectable
> condit!ion<
>
> Because there aren't enough people with enough money to care.
>
>>and I hope that after her repaint E-train will not be allowed to get into
> a state!!<
>
> Same answer. The NRM didn't give a fig for E-Train's state for 26 years.
> If
> Paul hadn't badgered them time and time again she'd probably have been
> scrapped by now, and even that would have been 'covered up'. The Support
> Group are seen as nuisances at York, I'm sure many of the staff there are
> only too glad to see E-Train en route to Shildon as they won't have to
> 'put
> up' with her or us any more. The repaint was only done because there was
> an
> open day coming up, and only Paul's trickery with the primer blothes got
> the bogies painted even then!
>
>>I personally would like to see the p-train in an oporational state.<
>
> Wouldn't we all? But the answer lies in my tirade above, money.
>
> Sorry to be so negative, but it REALLY makes me mad when such important
> artifacts are treated like junk by the very people who are charged with
> looking after them.
>
> Regards
> Kit
> <pissed-off mode off........>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


---
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I totally agree with your sentiments there, Kit. One thing I noticed
whilst working on the E Train at the NRM was the shocking state of some
of the other coaches and wagons parked alongside (pre-Railfest).

In particular, there was a fascinating ex-LMS test coach literally
rotting away to nothing, both inside and out. I hope the new building at
Shildon will allow these vehicles to be restored properly, as I'm sure
they all have a story to tell.

The same goes for the P-Train power car - when repainted and restored
much can be made of the evolution from the E-Train to the P-Train and
ultimatly the IC225 and Class 91. It's a golden opportunity to put the
record straight and show folk that the project wasn't the failure as
portrayed by the media and politicos of the day.

Regards,
Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
Electra Railway Graphics
www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Fotopic Site:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/

-----Original Message-----
From: Kit Spackman [mailto:101453.3657@...]
Sent: 25 September 2004 00:24
To: INTERNET:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> State of APTs


Brian,

> As this is the last APT-P to survive surely it should not be left like

this? <

In a word, money...........

I'm sure Rob will have something to say about this too, but the primary
reason is that there isn't anyone who has enough spare money and the wil
to use it to restore the P-Train.

>It seems to me that the rest of the world recognise the importance the
>APT

project and trains had >on high speed rail travel why can't the British.
<

Because successive Governments don't give a fig for Britain's
engineering capability, let alone it's heritage. If Maggie Thatcher even
knew what 'Advanced Passenger Train' meant we wouldn't be in the state
we are now.

>I feel that APT-P should be put undercover and maintained. If the
>steam

trains etc can be kept >shiny and looking like new then why can P-train
especially as people spent money and time to >bring her upto a
respectable condit!ion<

Because there aren't enough people with enough money to care.

>and I hope that after her repaint E-train will not be allowed to get
>into

a state!!<

Same answer. The NRM didn't give a fig for E-Train's state for 26 years.
If Paul hadn't badgered them time and time again she'd probably have
been scrapped by now, and even that would have been 'covered up'. The
Support Group are seen as nuisances at York, I'm sure many of the staff
there are only too glad to see E-Train en route to Shildon as they won't
have to 'put up' with her or us any more. The repaint was only done
because there was an open day coming up, and only Paul's trickery with
the primer blothes got the bogies painted even then!

>I personally would like to see the p-train in an oporational state.<

Wouldn't we all? But the answer lies in my tirade above, money.

Sorry to be so negative, but it REALLY makes me mad when such important
artifacts are treated like junk by the very people who are charged with
looking after them.

Regards
Kit
<pissed-off mode off........>




Yahoo! Groups Links

----- Original Message -----

From: Kit Spackman

To: INTERNET:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 12:23 AM

Subject: <APT Group> State of APTs

Brian,

> As this is the last APT-P to survive surely it should not be left like
this? <

In a word, money...........

I'm sure Rob will have something to say about this too, but the primary
reason is that there isn't anyone who has enough spare money and the wil to
use it to restore the P-Train.

>It seems to me that the rest of the world recognise the importance the APT
project and trains had >on high speed rail travel why can't the British. <

Because successive Governments don't give a fig for Britain's engineering
capability, let alone it's heritage. If Maggie Thatcher even knew what
'Advanced Passenger Train' meant we wouldn't be in the state we are now.

>I feel that APT-P should be put undercover and maintained.  If the steam
trains etc can be kept >shiny and looking like new then why can P-train
especially as people spent money and time to >bring her upto a respectable
condit!ion<

Because there aren't enough people with enough money to care.

>and I hope that after her repaint E-train will not be allowed to get into
a state!!<

Same answer. The NRM didn't give a fig for E-Train's state for 26 years. If
Paul hadn't badgered them time and time again she'd probably have been
scrapped by now, and even that would have been 'covered up'. The Support
Group are seen as nuisances at York, I'm sure many of the staff there are
only too glad to see E-Train en route to Shildon as they won't have to 'put
up' with her or us any more. The repaint was only done because there was an
open day coming up, and only Paul's  trickery with the primer blothes got
the bogies painted even then!

>I personally would like to see the p-train in an oporational state.<

Wouldn't we all? But the answer lies in my tirade above, money.

Sorry to be so negative, but it REALLY makes me mad when such important
artifacts are treated like junk by the very people who are charged with
looking after them.

Regards
Kit
<pissed-off mode off........>

About the repaint kindly sponsored by Sir Richard Branson's Virgin
company APT-P has got the Intercity APT logo on both DTSs - the
warning yellow paint has faded with two years out in the open -
nothing that a good clean wouldn't cure. (any volunteers??)

For before and after pictures of the repaint see -
http://www.apt-p.com/APTPRepaintBeforeAndAfter.htm


The powercar however, as can be seen from the photo's recently
uploaded to the photo's section of this group, does once again have
paint peeling from one side. We have had several 'experts' from the
paint industry look at it and none have come up with a solution - one
even suggested wrapping the whole PC in vinyl in the correct livery !


With regard to the German and Japanese websites let me know where you
found these pictures and I'll tell you when they were taken.


Again as Kit has said the main problem is lack of money / undercover
accomodation - I would love to see P Train in 'operational' state and
stored undercover but The Railway Age gets no funding other than gate
receipts and donations. Any millionaires lottery winners please make
cheques out to 'The Railway Age' !!


If there is room at Shildon I'd love to see APT-P along side APT-E !


Rob
www.apt-p.com

This time it's a Class 370 APT-P in INTERCITY Swallow and Virgin
Liveries and a GNER 91 with a difference...

Picture Here:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7834511.html

Regards,
Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
Electra Railway Graphics
www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Fotopic Site:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/

This site claims vinyl is 1/3 the cost of paint. 3M is a huge global
company; maybe they would be willing to help out, even if it were
for one APT vehicle at a time, say starting with the power car. It
would be good PR for 3M.


http://authoring.3m.com/cms/GB/en/2-98/cFeFiFT/view.jhtml

"3M™ Controltac™ Graphic Film, an opaque vinyl which is
sufficiently flexible to conform to both smooth and irregular
surfaces, was used 30 years ago by BR for the Inter-City logo. The
vinyl revolution began in March 1999 when the cost benefit of using
vinyl instead of paint was presented by 3M to WAGN for their
proposed c2c livery replacement. 3M demonstrated total coverage of a
carriage at approximately a third of the cost of metallic spray
painting."

Oooooo, very nice.

that is very nice indeed adam good on yea
nigel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Warr" <adam.warr@...>
To: <ngauge@yahoogroups.com>; <demodellers@yahoogroups.com>;
<Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 5:02 PM
Subject: <APT Group> Fotopic Update - More APT Musings....


> This time it's a Class 370 APT-P in INTERCITY Swallow and Virgin
> Liveries and a GNER 91 with a difference...
>
> Picture Here:
> http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7834511.html
>
> Regards,
> Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
> Electra Railway Graphics
> www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
> Fotopic Site:
> http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


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I have since found out that the TV program mentioned below
was "Extreme Machines - Metal Monsters". This episode was on TV
yesterday morning (Sat) so I taped it as I was going out at the
time. I've just watched it and here's what Pete Waterman had to say
about the APT-P:

"They actually gave us this to get rid of it because their were to
many journalists taking pictures of it in a scrap yard and we had to
hide it for ten years, we had to physically hide it!, so nobody
could see it. That was our part of the deal with British Rail that
nobody could see it".

I don't know when the interview with Pete Waterman took place but it
was definitely before the P-train was repainted in June 2002.

Take Care,
Andy


---Original Message---

> Hi,
>
> I have just spoken to a friend of mine who said that the APT-P was

on TV last night, Tues. It was on 'Discovery Science' just before
8pm.

>
> He said that he only caught the last few minutes of the program

which showed some archive footage of the P-train that he has never
seen before, also, more interestingly it showed an interview with
Pete Waterman at the Railway Age, Crewe. Pete was talking about the
APT project & said that when BR passed the P-train onto the Railway
Age one of the conditions was that it mustn't be shown to anyone for
ten years - especially the Germans as they were after the tilting
technology - this is the first time I have heard this, did anyone
else see the TV program / can anyone confirm Pete Waterman's
statement?

>
> Cheers,
> Andy

Hi There

it was indeed Halo Graphics who suggested wrapping our powercar in
preprinted vinyl.

Perhaps that would have been a longer lasting solution ? - although
I'd be against it as it wasn't how it was done when in service.


Rob
www.apt-p.com




--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "aarontaffera"
<aarontaffera@y...> wrote:

> This site claims vinyl is 1/3 the cost of paint. 3M is a huge

global

> company; maybe they would be willing to help out, even if it were
> for one APT vehicle at a time, say starting with the power car. It
> would be good PR for 3M.
>
>
> http://authoring.3m.com/cms/GB/en/2-98/cFeFiFT/view.jhtml
>
> "3M™ Controltac™ Graphic Film, an opaque vinyl which is
> sufficiently flexible to conform to both smooth and irregular
> surfaces, was used 30 years ago by BR for the Inter-City logo. The
> vinyl revolution began in March 1999 when the cost benefit of using
> vinyl instead of paint was presented by 3M to WAGN for their
> proposed c2c livery replacement. 3M demonstrated total coverage of

a

> carriage at approximately a third of the cost of metallic spray
> painting."

who should we write to about the 'care' of APT ?

Ralph

> The amount of tilt is decided by information from on-board sensors.
>
> Regards
>
> Gerry Bates
>

Gerry,

what sort of sensors are they ??


Ralph

Ralph

the APT-P vehicles currently at The Railway Age in Crewe are owned by
Crewe Heritage Trust. They could not however be sold on, without
first offering them first to the National Railway Museum and then
British Railways Board.

To write to the trustees address your letter


Crewe Heritage Trust
The Railway Age
Vernon Way
Crewe
CW1 2DB


Best wishes

Rob
www.apt-p.com

Ralph

Kit can speak with more authority than me, of course, but the sensors will be accelerometers - measuring lateral acceleration.

When a body moves in a curve it requires a constant acceleration towards the centre of the curve. The tilt system doesn't cancel that acceleration, merely moves it to an apparently vertical axis and we don't feel thrown sideways. But the lateral acceleration measured by the sensors is cancelled out - or most of it (it's useful to have a little residual lateral acceleration to prevent motion sickness).

To the passenger, going through a horizontal curve with tilt in operation is really like going through a vertical curve in terms of the forces on the body.

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 26/09/04 at 12:39 ralphhodgeson wrote:

>> The amount of tilt is decided by information from on-board sensors.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Gerry Bates
>>
>
>Gerry,
>
>what sort of sensors are they ??
>
>
>Ralph
>
>
>
>
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Yet another look at the APT - this time turning the clock back to
pre-InterCity days...

http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7891263.html

Regards,
Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
Electra Railway Graphics
www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Fotopic Site:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/

----- Original Message -----

From: Adam Warr

To: ngauge@yahoogroups.com ; demodellers@yahoogroups.com ; Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 2:58 PM

Subject: <APT Group> Fotopic Update - APT Goes Retro!

Yet another look at the APT - this time turning the clock back to
pre-InterCity days...

http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7891263.html

Regards,
Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
Electra Railway Graphics
www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Fotopic Site:
http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/

The media chortling didn't take long...

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=139235

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3693808.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-4517857,00.html

Nick

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@c...> wrote:

> >I personally would like to see the p-train in an oporational

state.<

> Wouldn't we all? But the answer lies in my tirade above, money.

Going back to the E train, I have looked at the pictures on the
website showing the visible decay, but have not seen much information
on the condition of the actual 'works'.

Could the power cars ever be restarted and moved under their own
power, or have the turbines/motors/axles completely seized/rusted up
over the years?

(ab)

Only one left is LMS 'Coronation Scot' livery :)

-Rich-

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Warr"
<adam.warr@n...> wrote:

> Yet another look at the APT - this time turning the clock back to
> pre-InterCity days...
>
> http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/p7891263.html
>
> Regards,
> Adam Warr, Peterborough UK
> Electra Railway Graphics
> www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
> Fotopic Site:
> http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/

----- Original Message -----

From: Nick Wheat

To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 4:07 PM

Subject: <APT Group> Here we go again

The media chortling didn't take long...

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=139235

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3693808.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-4517857,00.html

Nick