What an amazing day it has been with a huge display of steam, diesel and
electric spanning two centuries.

Highlights were 3440 "City of Truro" working all day on the
demonstration track, the Penydarren replica (you have to see it in
action!), real BR steam shed atmosphere (smokin'), D9009 and 56006 both
restored to original condition, APT-E looking magnificent and the brand
new 171 4-car Turbostar in SR livery.

I have created a new Fotopic gallery at:

http://www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net/c193922.html

I've cross-posted this, as there is really something to suit everyone in
this selection!

The atmosphere was superb, with none of the grumpy kettle photographers
who have marred some past open days. With only one or two exceptions
everything was well displayed and accessable.

If you're planning to go, you may not want to view these pictures just
yet...

Regards,
Adam Warr
Electra Railway Graphics
Website: www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Railway Photos: www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net

>Virgin Trains Chief Executive Chris Green said: "This is a milestone event

in delivering the West Coast upgrade. We >are now carrying passengers at
125mph for the first time on the West Coast - and on tilting trains.<

Sorry Chris Green, that's a 'terminologocal inexactitude' to quote Sir
Winston Churchill. To put it plainer, it's a lie!

There were passengers being carried on 125 mp tilting trains on the West
Coast from Dec. 7th 1981. I know 'cos I was one...............

Needless to say I'm talking about APT-P, and you REALLY ought to know that
in your position..........

Regards
Kit

Hi All,
How come the wcml needs so much upgrading to allow
125mph running now when the APT was doing 150mph+
twenty years ago?

Laurie





___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Because the tories didnt spend any money on it for 20 years.

Peter

>Because the tories didnt spend any money on it for 20 years.<

True, but then neither did Labour in the succeeding years.

We haven't had a Governement who knew, or cared, a whit about railways
since 1950 or so, and even that date's debatable. Now that it's privatised
we're just as badly off, where 'Accountants Rule OK'.

Regards
Kit

I've just come across a cartoon from the November 1980 edition of
Railnews -


http://www.apt-p.com/APTCartoons.htm


Best Wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

Some of the cartoons show a very sad lack of understanding of what tilt does and its effects, especially that featuring an APT at a station on a bend! Unlike a non-tilting train the APT would have adopted an upright attitude in such circumstances.

Regards

Gerry Bates

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 30/06/04 at 11:00 Rob Latham wrote:

>I've just come across a cartoon from the November 1980 edition of
>Railnews -
>
>
>http://www.apt-p.com/APTCartoons.htm
>
>
>Best Wishes
>
>
>Rob
>www.apt-p.com
>
>
>
>
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Awwww, come on, Gerry, it's supposed to be humor.

If you're going to make fun of cartoonists who get the engineering wrong, a
better example would be which way the soup is going. (Or the snowbound
passengers, for that matter...).

My personal favorite was the 'used-car' sale windscreen sticker... closely
followed by the required-track-maintenance train.

Yeah, all right!

I do get increasingly crotchety in my old age!

Cheers

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 30/06/04 at 08:16 Robert M. Ellsworth wrote:

>Awwww, come on, Gerry, it's supposed to be humor.
>
>If you're going to make fun of cartoonists who get the engineering wrong, a
>better example would be which way the soup is going. (Or the snowbound
>passengers, for that matter...).
>
>My personal favorite was the 'used-car' sale windscreen sticker... closely
>followed by the required-track-maintenance train.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Rob,

>I've just come across a cartoon from the November 1980 edition of Railnews

-<

Huh! Over half of them are about tilt too! <G>

The last one shows a woefull ignorance about tilt systems and stations on
bends. The truth of the matter was that APT remained level, cancelling out
the cant altogether when stopped at station on a bend, Wellingborough for
instance. That was not the case with a conventional coach of course.

Regards
Kit

Following on from yesterdays collection of cartoons I have been sent
a scan of the cover of Private Eye December 1981.

See -

http://www.apt-p.com/APTFunnies.htm

for this and others taken from Alan Williams 'Not The Age Of The
Train'

Best Wishes


Rob

PS - Let me know if you have any other cartoons of APT !

Sorry I forgot to ask Who or What is that bloke saying 'Probably the
finest Advanced Passenger Train of all time" ?

Many Thanks

Rob

http://www.apt-p.com/APTFunnies.htm

On 1 Jul 2004, at 1:10 pm, Rob Latham wrote:

> Sorry I forgot to ask Who or What is that bloke saying 'Probably the
> finest Advanced Passenger Train of all time" ?

André Previn?

Nick

> Andr?Previn?

And 'WHY' - I should have asked too !


PS I retyped the captions on the photograph as they were rather poor
on the original 1980s paper.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerry Bates

To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:45 PM

Subject: Re[2]: <APT Group> cartoons

Yeah, all right!

I do get increasingly crotchety in my old age!

Cheers

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 30/06/04 at 08:16 Robert M. Ellsworth wrote:

>Awwww, come on, Gerry, it's supposed to be humor.
>
>If you're going to make fun of cartoonists who get the engineering wrong, a
>better example would be which way the soup is going.  (Or the snowbound
>passengers, for that matter...).
>
>My personal favorite was the 'used-car' sale windscreen sticker... closely
>followed by the required-track-maintenance train.
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/links
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>







http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/links

Nick has been into the archives again and found another Ward cartoon from
Railnews January 1981. This one is strictly not about APT but is included for
your enjoyment anyway.

See

http://www.apt-p.com/APTCartoons.htm


Rob

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Hi All,
Ive just been informed that the APT-E will be leaving the NRM
sometime between the 2nd and 13th August 2004.

The train is being split and loaded on to several special ultra low
loaders and taken to Shildon.

I will try and get an exact date and let you know, it should be very
interesting to view.

As long as the NRM inform me of the move, I will be there to record
all the action.

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group, NRM, York

>The train is being split and loaded on to several special ultra low

loaders and taken to Shildon.<

And have they kept us in the loop and taken our advice as they said they
would?

No.................

I wonder what will happen if they break it while splitting it, as there
isn't anyone there who's actually done it before. Not to mention how they
will put it back together at the other end if they don't take the proper
precautions when splitting it. <sigh>

Regards
Kit (Frustrated of Lydney)

ah well.........................................

Im supposed to meet up with a collection of people sometime before
the train goes, so they can say what they are gonna do, I bet it
never happens and I just turn up one day at the NRM and she has gone!

They havent even said if they have found the lifting hooks.

Kit, Im not sure what else I can do now, but I will keep trying,
Tim has also been emailing them about the move, so we will keep the
pressure up.

We must have a chat soon Kit, havent spoken for ages.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@c...> wrote:

>
> >The train is being split and loaded on to several special ultra

low

> loaders and taken to Shildon.<
>
> And have they kept us in the loop and taken our advice as they

said they

> would?
>
> No.................
>
> I wonder what will happen if they break it while splitting it, as

there

> isn't anyone there who's actually done it before. Not to mention

how they

> will put it back together at the other end if they don't take the

proper

> precautions when splitting it. <sigh>
>
> Regards
> Kit (Frustrated of Lydney)

Hi Paul,

That's good news - fingers crossed it all goes well.

Any news from Mr Rees on what our involvement will be once the the old
girl's been moved?

Regards,
Adam Warr
Electra Railway Graphics
Website: www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Railway Photos: www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Leadley [mailto:PAUL@...]
Sent: 06 July 2004 10:53
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <APT Group> E train on the move


Hi All,
Ive just been informed that the APT-E will be leaving the NRM
sometime between the 2nd and 13th August 2004.

The train is being split and loaded on to several special ultra low
loaders and taken to Shildon.

I will try and get an exact date and let you know, it should be very
interesting to view.

As long as the NRM inform me of the move, I will be there to record
all the action.

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group, NRM, York





http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/links
Yahoo! Groups Links

----- Original Message -----

From: Kit Spackman

>The train is being split and loaded on to several special ultra low
loaders and taken to Shildon.<

And have they kept us in the loop and taken our advice as they said they
would?

No.................

I wonder what will happen if they break it while splitting it, as there
isn't anyone there who's actually done it before. Not to mention how they
will put it back together at the other end if they don't take the proper
precautions when splitting it. <sigh>

Regards
Kit (Frustrated of Lydney)

Not a bad idea Andy, if you fancy contacting them.

Im still working on the NRM to get an exact date, I will keep you all
posted.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Appleton"
<AndyAppleton@b...> wrote:

> Maybe we should contact/email RAIL magazine as I'm pretty sure they

would love to show this "exclusive" & "very rare" article in their
magazine? Maybe then the NRM will get the move right?!?

>
> Fingers Crossed!!
> Andy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kit Spackman
>
> >The train is being split and loaded on to several special ultra

low

> loaders and taken to Shildon.<
>
> And have they kept us in the loop and taken our advice as they

said they

> would?
>
> No.................
>
> I wonder what will happen if they break it while splitting it, as

there

> isn't anyone there who's actually done it before. Not to mention

how they

> will put it back together at the other end if they don't take the

proper

> precautions when splitting it. <sigh>
>
> Regards
> Kit (Frustrated of Lydney)

A VHS TAPE OF ROUND TRIP TO GLASGOW & E FOR EXPERIMENTAL IS ON EBAY

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Bathmatus

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AND ITS 3.50

Bathmatus

Nick and I have been searching the archives again and come across a
few articles from the BR staff newspaper 'Railnews' see -

http://www.apt-p.com/Railnews.htm

If anyone has any other articles from Railnews I'd be most interested
in hearing from them.

Best Wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

Attachments :

This advert from 1977 caught my eye.

Wonder how many it fooled :-)

Nick

--

Any chance of putting the file into the archive, so that we can see
it?
PED



--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, Nick Wheat
<wheaty@d...> wrote:

> This advert from 1977 caught my eye.
>
> Wonder how many it fooled :-)
>
> Nick
>
> --

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Peter E Davies" <gw0hqd@c...>
wrote:

> Any chance of putting the file into the archive, so that we can see

It is now in the photos folder.

Short Cut :-

<http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_1992940/__hr_hybrid.jpg?bcFsO9ABC6oNPDVR>

Nick

Interesting picture. Looks like an interim design proposal for the P
Train - basically the E-train with a cab kitted out for dual-manning.

I wonder if that was an official BR picture?

Regards,
Adam Warr
Electra Railway Graphics
Website: www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk
Railway Photos: www.adamsphotos.fotopic.net

Hi All,
Ive just got round to posting up on the E train website the intercom
tapes from run 4, still doing run 3 as yet.

http://www.apt-e.org/trials/trials.htm

Makes interesting listening.

Just listen to Alan Goodley and Ray Coleman, Ray was in PC2 manually
tuning turbine 2 with a couple of screw drivers, so he needed to
know what the driver was doing.

Enjoy people.

Regards

Paul

>Just listen to Alan Goodley and Ray Coleman, Ray was in PC2 manually
>tuning turbine 2 with a couple of screw drivers, so he needed to
>know what the driver was doing.<

Cor, brings back memories..........

The turbine control unit on one of the turbines in the trailing power car
failed on a previous run and was replaced by the spare on the return run to
Uffington. When they tried to re-start that turbine the spare TCU was found
to have failed as well!

As the possibility of getting above 150 mph on 9 turbines was marginal, to
say the least, Alan and Ray devised the 'Ray Coleman Turbine Control Unit'
which required Ray to stand in the power car right alongside the turbine
(!) adjusting the control potentiometers with two screwdrivers in concert
while the train bucketed along at over 150! All this while wearing an ear
defender headset with Alan giving him instructions on the engine settings
required from TC2!!!

In years to come that will stand alongside the story of Mallard wrecking
her bearings on the 126 mph run in the '30s.

Regards
Kit

This story has a 'typically' American counterpart across the pond with the
Metroliners. At the time I was familiar with their operation (circa 1972 to
1976) it was very common to find a second trainman -- the 'riding
maintainer' -- up in the front vestibule, with all sorts of clips, meters
and controls wired up to the panel there. It wasn't always clear what was
going on, but one of the ones I remember had to do with pantographs either
sagging down or riding too high. This was the price that had to be paid for
high-speed operation with these glorified MU trains.

Weirdly enough, New Jersey Transit was routinely getting well north of 'the
ton' with its *commuter* MUs at about the same time, if the speedometers in
the vacant driving cab at the rear of each train could be relied on.
Glorious, ridiculous showers of sparks from the catenary, which couldn't
have helped the reliability of the electronics...


I, for one, see only a faint resemblance between this and Mallard. Mallard
had generic bearing problems due to fundamental problems with the
engineering, which I doubt would permit service speeds even remotely close
to 125mph in regular service. I surmise that there was a transient
common-mode problem that was killing the TCUs on the road, and once that was
fixed, there would be little problem with successful testing at 150+
thereafter.

Of course, I'm also ASSuming that Luc*s had nothing to do with the
electronics on the APT ;-}

RME

Both stories will be heard in years to come, E train wouldnt have
done the 150+ with Ray and Allan, and thus makes a good story to
tell, like the Mallard story.

Mallard is still the fastest steam loco and E train is the fastest
none electric train.

Its storys like these that help to make the railways, if you see
what I mean.

I would have loved to have been there, in the cab of e train.

Har well, I can only dream about what it was like.

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Robert M.
Ellsworth" <wizlish1@m...> wrote:

> This story has a 'typically' American counterpart across the pond

with the

> Metroliners. At the time I was familiar with their operation

(circa 1972 to

> 1976) it was very common to find a second trainman -- the 'riding
> maintainer' -- up in the front vestibule, with all sorts of clips,

meters

> and controls wired up to the panel there. It wasn't always clear

what was

> going on, but one of the ones I remember had to do with

pantographs either

> sagging down or riding too high. This was the price that had to

be paid for

> high-speed operation with these glorified MU trains.
>
> Weirdly enough, New Jersey Transit was routinely getting well

north of 'the

> ton' with its *commuter* MUs at about the same time, if the

speedometers in

> the vacant driving cab at the rear of each train could be relied

on.

> Glorious, ridiculous showers of sparks from the catenary, which

couldn't

> have helped the reliability of the electronics...
>
>
> I, for one, see only a faint resemblance between this and

Mallard. Mallard

> had generic bearing problems due to fundamental problems with the
> engineering, which I doubt would permit service speeds even

remotely close

> to 125mph in regular service. I surmise that there was a transient
> common-mode problem that was killing the TCUs on the road, and

once that was

> fixed, there would be little problem with successful testing at

150+

> thereafter.
>
> Of course, I'm also ASSuming that Luc*s had nothing to do with the
> electronics on the APT ;-}
>
> RME

Robert,

>Of course, I'm also ASSuming that Luc*s had nothing to do with the

electronics on the APT ;-}<

Hehehe, I don't think so, but I'm darned if I can remember. A close perusal
of the TCUs on the turbines in E-Train will show of course.

Paul,

>I would have loved to have been there, in the cab of e train.<

You'd have had to be 00 scale to fit in there, what with the driver, the
Inspector, Brian and Alan Rimmer!

Space was at a premium, as you can imagine looking at the E-Train cab
today. Almost all the comms talk on the tape is to keep that engine running
and Brian calling the mileposts, but every now and then you can hear Hugh
calling out the speed. Alan's comments about the FCU (It seems 'real'
engine men called it the Fuel Control Unit, not a Turbine Control Unit,
sorry) working better than ever before are pretty relevent here, not to
mention him saying the train had 2 drivers! <g>

You can hear me call out 'Halleluljah' when Hugh calls the 150 mph though
Didcot too <g>

What's surprising after all this time is how quiet it all sounds, there is
a constant drone from the traction motors, and now and then you can hear
the horn, but there's none of the crashing and banging and general mayhem
that seemed to be par for the course on those runs.

I listened to it while reading my logbooks of the run, it's pure nostalgia
and I'm REALLY glad Brian kept those tapes, it's a proper piece of history
for sure.

Regards
Kit

is there any photos of this wonderfull machine being scrapped R.I.P

yes there is, goto Robs APT-P site at www.apt-p.com

Look in the Gallery, and look under John Turner.

A very very sad sight.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Forrest"
<paulf10470@y...> wrote:

> is there any photos of this wonderfull machine being scrapped R.I.P

The images from Ady are now in The Gallery

see -

http://www.apt-p.com/APTGalleryColourAJ.htm


Rob
www.apt-p.com

I've just uploaded a picture of 49006 at Woodall Services on route
to 'Locomotion the NRM at Shildon' rather a sad sight after being in
the open for so many years.

http://www.apt-p.com/work49006.htm


Rob


PS I look forward to seeing it fully repainted next to the E-Train at
Shildon later this year !

A high resolution version is in the Photo's section of this group.

A 'FULL SET' OF APT-P MANUALS IS ON EBAY

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2259136977


Bathmatus

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob Latham

To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:57 PM

Subject: <APT Group> 49006 on route to Shildon

I've just uploaded a picture of 49006 at Woodall Services on route
to 'Locomotion the NRM at Shildon' rather a sad sight after being in
the open for so many years.

http://www.apt-p.com/work49006.htm


Rob


PS I look forward to seeing it fully repainted next to the E-Train at
Shildon later this year !

A high resolution version is in the Photo's section of this group.



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/links

I've just uploaded another cover from Private Eye magazine to the
website

See

http://www.apt-p.com/APTJokes.htm


Rob

PS who is holding the watch ? (Sydney Jones perhaps)