Hi Fred
as you said each vehicle has its own tilt sensors and control
system (the accelerometers for the system were mounted on the leading
bogie of the coach in front in the Mark III system (except for the
front coach!!)) so on negotiating a reverse curve each coach would be
at a different angle, even the front and rear one at completely 9
degrees over in opposite directions if appropiate.

The corridor connections have large sliding areas around the doorways
to cope with this. Obviously the difference between two coaches
should not be that great anyway (if evrything is working OK) - we
have had two adjacent vehicle tilting hard-over in opposite
directions in tests ! - although not whilst in service!

I seem to remember Kit saying that he took E-Train through a station
with each of the coaches alternating between hard left & hard
right ! - I'm sure he will tell more - and what reaction onlookers
gave!



Rob

If you want any photos of the corridor end arrangement let me know !

Also - don't try this with the rubber farings zipped in place between
adjacent coaches!

Hi Fred

I'll leave the experts to answer your direct question but will draw your attention to the fact that the problem doesn' t affect only APTs because on curves the track is tilted or canted.

Paraphrasing your question:

Say for arguments sake that a train has three coaches. When the first coach hits a curve it starts to tilt on the canted track, likewise for coach 2 and coach 3. So there's going to be a short time when one coach is part tilted (or levelled out after the curve) before the successive coaches follow suit. The question is how does the corridor connection between coaches cope with this?

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 14/03/02 at 15:12 F NW wrote:

>Hello Group,
>
>Say for arguments sake the APT has three coaches. When the first coach
>hits
>a curve it starts to tilt, likewise for coach 2 and coach 3. So there's
>going to be a short time when one coach is part tilted (or levelled out
>after the curve) before the successive coaches follow suit. The question
>is
>how does the corridor connection between coaches cope with this?
>
>TIA,
>Fred
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

But in this case you would expect the transition from level to tilted
running to be very gradual would you not ?




"Gerry Bates"
<gerry@wilford-ba To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
tes.co.uk> cc:
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Tilt Question
03/14/2002 04:52
PM
Please respond to
Advanced-Passenge
r-Train






Hi Fred

I'll leave the experts to answer your direct question but will draw your
attention to the fact that the problem doesn' t affect only APTs because on
curves the track is tilted or canted.

Paraphrasing your question:

Say for arguments sake that a train has three coaches. When the first coach
hits a curve it starts to tilt on the canted track, likewise for coach 2
and coach 3.  So there's going to be a short time when one coach is part
tilted (or levelled out after the curve) before the successive coaches
follow suit. The question is how does the corridor connection between
coaches cope with this?

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 14/03/02 at 15:12 F NW wrote:

>Hello Group,
>
>Say for arguments sake the APT has three coaches. When the first coach
>hits
>a curve it starts to tilt, likewise for coach 2 and coach 3.  So there's
>going to be a short time when one coach is part tilted (or levelled out
>after the curve) before the successive coaches follow suit. The question
>is
>how does the corridor connection between coaches cope with this?
>
>TIA,
>Fred
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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Hi everyone,
Thanks to Kit and Paul for your help so far

Kit, you said...

> The geometry of the system was designed so that the
> 'pivot' was at hip
> height when the passengers were sitting down,

So if I made the bodies pivot at a similar height in
the model, ie above floor level, the coach should look
right? Or is this too simplistic?

regards

Laurie


__________________________________________________
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David

I would hope - and expect! - any tilt transition (track or vehicle induced) to be gradual. Otherwise passengers would be rocketed from their seats.

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 14/03/02 at 17:09 David Babb wrote:

>But in this case you would expect the transition from level to tilted
>running to be very gradual would you not ?
>
>
>
>
>
> "Gerry Bates"
>
> <gerry@wilford-ba To:
>Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
>
> tes.co.uk> cc:
>
> Subject: Re: [APT Group]
>Tilt Question
> 03/14/2002 04:52
>
> PM
>
> Please respond to
>
> Advanced-Passenge
>
> r-Train
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Fred
>
>I'll leave the experts to answer your direct question but will draw your
>attention to the fact that the problem doesn' t affect only APTs because on
>curves the track is tilted or canted.
>
>Paraphrasing your question:
>
>Say for arguments sake that a train has three coaches. When the first coach
>hits a curve it starts to tilt on the canted track, likewise for coach 2
>and coach 3.  So there's going to be a short time when one coach is part
>tilted (or levelled out after the curve) before the successive coaches
>follow suit. The question is how does the corridor connection between
>coaches cope with this?
>
>Regards
>
>Gerry
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 14/03/02 at 15:12 F NW wrote:
>
>>Hello Group,
>>
>>Say for arguments sake the APT has three coaches. When the first coach
>>hits
>>a curve it starts to tilt, likewise for coach 2 and coach 3.  So there's
>>going to be a short time when one coach is part tilted (or levelled out
>>after the curve) before the successive coaches follow suit. The question
>>is
>>how does the corridor connection between coaches cope with this?
>>
>>TIA,
>>Fred
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Thanks guys - What a helpful bunch you all are!!

I've just had the pleasure of having a 'quick' look at the two APT
websites - Which are truly amazing!! Well done guys, Paul & Rob (I
think?)

Thank You,
Fred

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Advanced-Passenger-Train group:

Which looks best?

o APT-E
o APT-P
o Virgin Pendolino


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

You would hope wouldn't you ?

Dave Babb,




"Gerry Bates"
<gerry@wilford-ba To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
tes.co.uk> cc:
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Tilt Question
03/14/2002 05:30
PM
Please respond to
Advanced-Passenge
r-Train






David

I would hope - and expect! - any tilt transition (track or vehicle induced)
to be gradual. Otherwise passengers would be rocketed from their seats.

Regards

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 14/03/02 at 17:09 David Babb wrote:

>But in this case you would expect the transition from level to tilted
>running to be very gradual would you not ?
>
>
>
>
>
>                      "Gerry Bates"
>
>                      <gerry@wilford-ba        To:
>Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
>
>                      tes.co.uk>               cc:
>
>                                               Subject:  Re: [APT Group]
>Tilt Question
>                      03/14/2002 04:52
>
>                      PM
>
>                      Please respond to
>
>                      Advanced-Passenge
>
>                      r-Train
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Fred
>
>I'll leave the experts to answer your direct question but will draw your
>attention to the fact that the problem doesn' t affect only APTs because
on
>curves the track is tilted or canted.
>
>Paraphrasing your question:
>
>Say for arguments sake that a train has three coaches. When the first
coach
>hits a curve it starts to tilt on the canted track, likewise for coach 2
>and coach 3.  So there's going to be a short time when one coach is part
>tilted (or levelled out after the curve) before the successive coaches
>follow suit. The question is how does the corridor connection between
>coaches cope with this?
>
>Regards
>
>Gerry
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 14/03/02 at 15:12 F NW wrote:
>
>>Hello Group,
>>
>>Say for arguments sake the APT has three coaches. When the first coach
>>hits
>>a curve it starts to tilt, likewise for coach 2 and coach 3.  So there's
>>going to be a short time when one coach is part tilted (or levelled out
>>after the curve) before the successive coaches follow suit. The question
>>is
>>how does the corridor connection between coaches cope with this?
>>
>>TIA,
>>Fred
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
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>
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The world's gone tilt mad all of a sudden.......

Laurie, yes indeed. The correct pivot height on an APT-P is just where the
body is at it's widest. If you look at it end on and compare the profile
with floor height you'll see that's just about hip height sitting down.

Re the 'start of tilt' question. It's not quite as simple as it seems, but
if it was all railway coaches would do it.

The curve itself doesn't suddenly start, it's a slow transition from
straight track to whatever radius the CCE needs. Usually it's a linear
transition, so that 1/2 way into the curve, the radius is double what it's
final radius will be. Likewise a 1/4 of the way into the curve it's 4 times
the radius of what it will eventually be. The required tilt angle does the
same thing, it's a linear increase in the required tilt angle as the curve
radius sharpens.

This goes for tilting or non-tilting stock of course, it's just that
tilting stock has the ability to achieve the angle needed, whereas
non-tilting stock has to make do with the cant angle that the CCE has built
into the curve.

As Rob pointed out, the tilt sensor isn't always on the vehicle that it's
sending the tilt signal to. This 'forward sensing' is an attempt to reduce
the tilt angle error between the time that the sensor sees the need to tilt
and the time that the vehicle actually does tilt. It also reduces the
amount of power you need to tilt the vehicle as you don't have a huge
transient power requirement.

E-Train normally had it's sensors on the actual vehicle that was tilting,
which is one reason why the tilt performance was so fast compared to
P-Train. We did try one experiment with forward sensing and that worked
quite well, and improved the tilt lag enough to warrant development of the
P-Train system.

There were two 'tilt failure' tests we carried that were notable. The worst
was the 'wrong way tilt' test we did at Old Dalby with TC1 tilted totally
the wrong way, that is 12 deg of NEGATIVE tilt while running round a curve
that needed 9 deg of positive tilt. As this was considered dangerous, there
was only one idiot on board TC1 at the time.

Guess who................

The other one was the test that Rob mentioned where we had TC1 hard over in
one direction and TC2 hard over the other. This was on straight track
however, and it was done tro check the gauge clearances. I think it was
just south of Bedford, Ampthill springs to mind, but I can't be sure. After
the first 2 or 3 runs we had an audience of a few HUNDRED people standing
on bridges wastching us! Goodness knows what they they thought we were up
to.....

In all these cases the angle of one vehicle relative to the next was very
large indeed, and in E-Trains case, the joint module between vehicles 'took
up the slack'. In the P-Train case the vestibule slid on large area plates
fixed to the vehicle end to achieve the same object. Passing from one
vehicle to another in this situation was an exercise in agility though....

I hope that's answered the questions fully enough. I'm afraid it's not a
simple answer.

Regards
Kit

Hi everyone

Interesting thread appearing on uk.railway

Regards

Nick

--
"A.Boodoo" wrote:

>
> Nick Evans wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > It has not been decided how it is going to be moved, but the most likely way
> > will be to move it across the ECML to the yard at the other side, we can
> > then lift it onto specially build 'Road Bogies', and we can take it away by
> > road..... Should prove to be interesting.....
> >
> > PS There is no chance that it can be powered up at the moment, since the 2
> > APU's (aux power units) were moved into one of the P-Trains along with the
> > batteries in 1976 when it was last shutdown.
> >
> > "Rich Mackin" <richmackin@...> wrote in message
> >
> > > News reaches me that a new railway museum will open next to the existing
> > > Timothy Hackworth Museum in Shildon, County Durham. They'll be receiving
> > > several exhibits on loan from the NRM, including their gas-turbine APT.
> > Does
> > > anyone have any idea how they'll move it? Will it go by road (in four
> > > sections I expect) or could it possibly even move under it's own power up
> > > the ECML before turning off at Darlington North Junction? Any ideas
> > anyone?
>
> One cab has been stripped of a lot of its equipment, the other looks complete
> though, and one of the engines is on display in The Works in the museum. It has
> wheels, and could potentially be hauled, but would you trust doing that with
> something whose wheels haven't turned for 20 years?
>
> A.Boodoo

Hi All,
APT-E is now under construction again, thanks to David Babb.

Early days on the bogies, but I think they look pretty good.

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/york1/etrain/etrain.htm

Maybe even get the model posted this week on the website.

Regards

Paul

Kit, what do you think now...........does she look good enough!!!!

Hi everyone

APT Ashtray for sale!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1084282390

Regards

Nick

PS - Note the sarky comment!

Don't get too angry Kit......."Perhaps it was designed to prevent ash being
tipped over the traveller when the thing tilted? On seconds thoughts,
probably not because that would mean that some thought had gone into the
design of this train."

On the bright side, the next issue of RAIL magazine (issue 431 20/03/02)
gives a 'brief' mention to the APT-P without any sarcastic comments /
incorrect information - for a change! Here is a sneak preview of the
article:

"Tilting trains returned to the West Coast Main Line for the first time
since the 1980's when Pendolino 390002 'Red Revolution' ran tilt tests on
February 23/24. In driving sleet and snow, 390002 ran at up to 90mph between
Carnforth and Carlisle. The track on this section, known as test site A, is
fitted with Tilt Authority and Speed Supervision (TASS) balises that tell
the train whether it can tilt or not. Eventually the whole of the WCML will
be fitted with these.

The next WCML tilt tests will take place in April, with the runs at up to
137mph. Tilting trains have not run on the WCML since BR's APT was withdrawn
in the 1980's."


Take Care,
Andy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Hi everyone
>
> APT Ashtray for sale!
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1084282390
>
> Regards
>
> Nick
>
> PS - Note the sarky comment!

>> > It has not been decided how it is going to be moved, but the most

likely way

> > will be to move it across the ECML to the yard at the other side, we

can

> > then lift it onto specially build 'Road Bogies', and we can take it

away by

> > road..... Should prove to be interesting.....
> >
> > PS There is no chance that it can be powered up at the moment, since

the 2

> > APU's (aux power units) were moved into one of the P-Trains along with

the

> > batteries in 1976 when it was last shutdown.<

'WE' can then lift it onto specially built........?

Is Mr Evans one of the E-Train Support Group then?

'Lifting' E-Train onto anything isn't as easy as it seems. It's not like
lifting a few Mk 1 coaches. First there has to be some method of stopping
the adjacent vehicle falling down, which needs the handling bogies, and
there are only two left bothh of which are currently supporting TC2. Then
there is the actual difficulty of splitting the bodies from the steering
beam, not an easy task at tall, as the ball joint has to be hydraulically
pumped apart, and the last time that was done was in 1976.........

While agreeing that moving E-Train under her own power is pretty unlikely,
it's not impossible, given enough motivation and money. She wouldn't need
as big APUs as she originally had, as their main purpose was to provide
house power for the TC2 instrumentation. Much smaller APU's, or APU in the
singular, would do the job, and batteries are easy to come by.

----------------------------------

Paul,

>Kit, what do you think now...........does she look good enough!!!!<

Pretty darn good, the bogies are really neat. To me the nose looks a little
short, but everything else is just about spot on.

------------------------

>Don't get too angry Kit......."Perhaps it was designed to prevent ash

being tipped over the traveller when the >thing tilted? On seconds
thoughts, probably not because that would mean that some thought had gone
into the

>design of this train."<

Grrrrrrr...............

When was the last time he designed a train then????? What does he think I
was doing from 1971 to 1976? Sitting by the fire with my feet up?

Bloody cheek........

Regards
Kit

Kit,
Yes the nose is a little sort when looking at it from some angles,
but I used the drawings of E train you sent me to model the thing,
so I shouls be close. If you look from side on, it does look a lot
longer.

Oh, and YES Nick Evans is a new member of the E train group.

Safe journey.....................

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@c...> wrote:

>
> >> > It has not been decided how it is going to be moved, but the

most

> likely way
> > > will be to move it across the ECML to the yard at the other

side, we

> can
> > > then lift it onto specially build 'Road Bogies', and we can

take it

> away by
> > > road..... Should prove to be interesting.....
> > >
> > > PS There is no chance that it can be powered up at the moment,

since

> the 2
> > > APU's (aux power units) were moved into one of the P-Trains

along with

> the
> > > batteries in 1976 when it was last shutdown.<
>
> 'WE' can then lift it onto specially built........?
>
> Is Mr Evans one of the E-Train Support Group then?
>
> 'Lifting' E-Train onto anything isn't as easy as it seems. It's

not like

> lifting a few Mk 1 coaches. First there has to be some method of

stopping

> the adjacent vehicle falling down, which needs the handling

bogies, and

> there are only two left bothh of which are currently supporting

TC2. Then

> there is the actual difficulty of splitting the bodies from the

steering

> beam, not an easy task at tall, as the ball joint has to be

hydraulically

> pumped apart, and the last time that was done was in 1976.........
>
> While agreeing that moving E-Train under her own power is pretty

unlikely,

> it's not impossible, given enough motivation and money. She

wouldn't need

> as big APUs as she originally had, as their main purpose was to

provide

> house power for the TC2 instrumentation. Much smaller APU's, or

APU in the

> singular, would do the job, and batteries are easy to come by.
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Paul,
>
> >Kit, what do you think now...........does she look good enough!!!!

<

>
> Pretty darn good, the bogies are really neat. To me the nose looks

a little

> short, but everything else is just about spot on.
>
> ------------------------
>
> >Don't get too angry Kit......."Perhaps it was designed to prevent

ash

> being tipped over the traveller when the >thing tilted? On seconds
> thoughts, probably not because that would mean that some thought

had gone

> into the
> >design of this train."<
>
> Grrrrrrr...............
>
> When was the last time he designed a train then????? What does he

think I

> was doing from 1971 to 1976? Sitting by the fire with my feet up?
>
> Bloody cheek........
>
> Regards
> Kit

Hi

Yup that's me, I was just repeating what had been mentioned before by the
NRM's head of engineering (darn I forgot his name,)
getting her moving again under her own power would be nice though even if
just to look at the faces of the people on the platforms. :)

Just wondering though, is the e train wired up in a way so that power from
the turbines can be used for axillaries, also how many turbines would be
needed to be running if to move her at prahaps a maxspeed of 50mph.

Regards
Nick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kit Spackman" <101453.3657@...>
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:15 AM
Subject: [APT Group] E-Train topics


>
> >> > It has not been decided how it is going to be moved, but the most
> likely way
> > > will be to move it across the ECML to the yard at the other side, we
> can
> > > then lift it onto specially build 'Road Bogies', and we can take it
> away by
> > > road..... Should prove to be interesting.....
> > >
> > > PS There is no chance that it can be powered up at the moment, since
> the 2
> > > APU's (aux power units) were moved into one of the P-Trains along with
> the
> > > batteries in 1976 when it was last shutdown.<
>
> 'WE' can then lift it onto specially built........?
>
> Is Mr Evans one of the E-Train Support Group then?
>
> 'Lifting' E-Train onto anything isn't as easy as it seems. It's not like
> lifting a few Mk 1 coaches. First there has to be some method of stopping
> the adjacent vehicle falling down, which needs the handling bogies, and
> there are only two left bothh of which are currently supporting TC2. Then
> there is the actual difficulty of splitting the bodies from the steering
> beam, not an easy task at tall, as the ball joint has to be hydraulically
> pumped apart, and the last time that was done was in 1976.........
>
> While agreeing that moving E-Train under her own power is pretty unlikely,
> it's not impossible, given enough motivation and money. She wouldn't need
> as big APUs as she originally had, as their main purpose was to provide
> house power for the TC2 instrumentation. Much smaller APU's, or APU in the
> singular, would do the job, and batteries are easy to come by.
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Paul,
>
> >Kit, what do you think now...........does she look good enough!!!!<
>
> Pretty darn good, the bogies are really neat. To me the nose looks a
little
> short, but everything else is just about spot on.
>
> ------------------------
>
> >Don't get too angry Kit......."Perhaps it was designed to prevent ash
> being tipped over the traveller when the >thing tilted? On seconds
> thoughts, probably not because that would mean that some thought had gone
> into the
> >design of this train."<
>
> Grrrrrrr...............
>
> When was the last time he designed a train then????? What does he think I
> was doing from 1971 to 1976? Sitting by the fire with my feet up?
>
> Bloody cheek........
>
> Regards
> Kit
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi Nick,
its Richard Gibbon, the person you cannot remember.

E train spent a lot of its time only running on 3 - 4 turbines as
they didnt need very high speed for many of the tests.

In therory, 1 - 2 turbines would be needed to get the train running
at any speed, a quick bit of maths.................................

2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50 mph
in the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = 720 - drag, should do
the trick.

One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power so Im
sure it could be done again, but it would be better and simpler to
do as Kit suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for
this purpose.

Im sure Kit will correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., "Nick Evans"
<nicky.p.evans@b...> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Yup that's me, I was just repeating what had been mentioned before

by the

> NRM's head of engineering (darn I forgot his name,)
> getting her moving again under her own power would be nice though

even if

> just to look at the faces of the people on the platforms. :)
>
> Just wondering though, is the e train wired up in a way so that

power from

> the turbines can be used for axillaries, also how many turbines

would be

> needed to be running if to move her at prahaps a maxspeed of 50mph.
>
> Regards
> Nick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kit Spackman" <101453.3657@c...>
> To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:15 AM
> Subject: [APT Group] E-Train topics
>
>
> >
> > >> > It has not been decided how it is going to be moved, but

the most

> > likely way
> > > > will be to move it across the ECML to the yard at the other

side, we

> > can
> > > > then lift it onto specially build 'Road Bogies', and we can

take it

> > away by
> > > > road..... Should prove to be interesting.....
> > > >
> > > > PS There is no chance that it can be powered up at the

moment, since

> > the 2
> > > > APU's (aux power units) were moved into one of the P-Trains

along with

> > the
> > > > batteries in 1976 when it was last shutdown.<
> >
> > 'WE' can then lift it onto specially built........?
> >
> > Is Mr Evans one of the E-Train Support Group then?
> >
> > 'Lifting' E-Train onto anything isn't as easy as it seems. It's

not like

> > lifting a few Mk 1 coaches. First there has to be some method of

stopping

> > the adjacent vehicle falling down, which needs the handling

bogies, and

> > there are only two left bothh of which are currently supporting

TC2. Then

> > there is the actual difficulty of splitting the bodies from the

steering

> > beam, not an easy task at tall, as the ball joint has to be

hydraulically

> > pumped apart, and the last time that was done was in

1976.........

> >
> > While agreeing that moving E-Train under her own power is pretty

unlikely,

> > it's not impossible, given enough motivation and money. She

wouldn't need

> > as big APUs as she originally had, as their main purpose was to

provide

> > house power for the TC2 instrumentation. Much smaller APU's, or

APU in the

> > singular, would do the job, and batteries are easy to come by.
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > >Kit, what do you think now...........does she look good

enough!!!!<

> >
> > Pretty darn good, the bogies are really neat. To me the nose

looks a

> little
> > short, but everything else is just about spot on.
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > >Don't get too angry Kit......."Perhaps it was designed to

prevent ash

> > being tipped over the traveller when the >thing tilted? On

seconds

> > thoughts, probably not because that would mean that some thought

had gone

> > into the
> > >design of this train."<
> >
> > Grrrrrrr...............
> >
> > When was the last time he designed a train then????? What does

he think I

> > was doing from 1971 to 1976? Sitting by the fire with my feet up?
> >
> > Bloody cheek........
> >
> > Regards
> > Kit
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >

Sorry to be a wet blanket but isn't this all somewhat academic? Won't Railtrack and safety-cases be somewhat insurmountable hurdles for this idea?

Gerry

PS I've had an offer of an instrumentation tape recorder to display in TC2.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 20/03/02 at 08:35 Silver_Dream_Racer wrote:

>Hi Nick,
>its Richard Gibbon, the person you cannot remember.
>
>E train spent a lot of its time only running on 3 - 4 turbines as
>they didnt need very high speed for many of the tests.
>
>In therory, 1 - 2 turbines would be needed to get the train running
>at any speed, a quick bit of maths.................................
>
>2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50 mph
>in the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = 720 - drag, should do
>the trick.
>
>One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power so Im
>sure it could be done again, but it would be better and simpler to
>do as Kit suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for
>this purpose.
>
>Im sure Kit will correct me if I am wrong.
>
>Regards
>
>Paul
>
>--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., "Nick Evans"
><nicky.p.evans@b...> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Yup that's me, I was just repeating what had been mentioned before
>by the
>> NRM's head of engineering (darn I forgot his name,)
>> getting her moving again under her own power would be nice though
>even if
>> just to look at the faces of the people on the platforms. :)
>>
>> Just wondering though, is the e train wired up in a way so that
>power from
>> the turbines can be used for axillaries, also how many turbines
>would be
>> needed to be running if to move her at prahaps a maxspeed of 50mph.
>>
>> Regards
>> Nick
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kit Spackman" <101453.3657@c...>
>> To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@y...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:15 AM
>> Subject: [APT Group] E-Train topics
>>
>>
>> >
>> > >> > It has not been decided how it is going to be moved, but
>the most
>> > likely way
>> > > > will be to move it across the ECML to the yard at the other
>side, we
>> > can
>> > > > then lift it onto specially build 'Road Bogies', and we can
>take it
>> > away by
>> > > > road..... Should prove to be interesting.....
>> > > >
>> > > > PS There is no chance that it can be powered up at the
>moment, since
>> > the 2
>> > > > APU's (aux power units) were moved into one of the P-Trains
>along with
>> > the
>> > > > batteries in 1976 when it was last shutdown.<
>> >
>> > 'WE' can then lift it onto specially built........?
>> >
>> > Is Mr Evans one of the E-Train Support Group then?
>> >
>> > 'Lifting' E-Train onto anything isn't as easy as it seems. It's
>not like
>> > lifting a few Mk 1 coaches. First there has to be some method of
>stopping
>> > the adjacent vehicle falling down, which needs the handling
>bogies, and
>> > there are only two left bothh of which are currently supporting
>TC2. Then
>> > there is the actual difficulty of splitting the bodies from the
>steering
>> > beam, not an easy task at tall, as the ball joint has to be
>hydraulically
>> > pumped apart, and the last time that was done was in
>1976.........
>> >
>> > While agreeing that moving E-Train under her own power is pretty
>unlikely,
>> > it's not impossible, given enough motivation and money. She
>wouldn't need
>> > as big APUs as she originally had, as their main purpose was to
>provide
>> > house power for the TC2 instrumentation. Much smaller APU's, or
>APU in the
>> > singular, would do the job, and batteries are easy to come by.
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------
>> >
>> > Paul,
>> >
>> > >Kit, what do you think now...........does she look good
>enough!!!!<
>> >
>> > Pretty darn good, the bogies are really neat. To me the nose
>looks a
>> little
>> > short, but everything else is just about spot on.
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> >
>> > >Don't get too angry Kit......."Perhaps it was designed to
>prevent ash
>> > being tipped over the traveller when the >thing tilted? On
>seconds
>> > thoughts, probably not because that would mean that some thought
>had gone
>> > into the
>> > >design of this train."<
>> >
>> > Grrrrrrr...............
>> >
>> > When was the last time he designed a train then????? What does
>he think I
>> > was doing from 1971 to 1976? Sitting by the fire with my feet up?
>> >
>> > Bloody cheek........
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Kit
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Paul and Nick,

>2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50 mph in

the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = >720 - drag, should do the trick.

>One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power so Im sure

it could be done again, but it would >be better and simpler to do as Kit
suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for this purpose.<

Moving turbine #5 back to the APU position and doing the re-wiring to the
engine controls would be a MAMMOTH task, to say the least! The Dale diesel
APU sets we had were over-sized anyway, so we'd maybe only need abou 150 hp
to provide enough power for the system services.

That's a guess, BTW, not to be quoted as gospel <g>

The technical problems about moving E-Train under her own power, or even
being towed on the track, are possibly mere bagatelles compared to the
political issues involved. For a start, would Railtrack Mk2 even sanction
the move anyway, remembering the wheel/axles haven't been looked at in 26
years and the power cars are almost certainly out of gauge for the route,
which would have to be surveyed foot by foot.

Whichever option is chosen, there is a LOT of work involved, and I'm not at
all sure we're moving fast enough to do it tthe time planned.

In passing Paul, is the Easter Weekend on or off? I don't get back from the
US until the Wed before and I'd need to home beforehand somehow.

Regards
Kit

Hi Kit,
The Easter weekend is off, as Im going away for the weekend, 30 - 1
st April.

There is another cab-it weekend later in the year, so maybe we could
get things sorted for then, PC2 still doesnt have a floor.

We could borrow the PC used to display MSTS and show it in TC1 VIP,
with a copy of E train running on it, should be done and dusted by
then, with sounds and a full cab, PRAY PRAY PRAY..................

Kuju have seen my model of E train and asked for a copy of it, or so
Im told by Robin at the NRM.

It was announce this week that 4.9 million pounds of funding towards
Shildon has been agreed, the out post is now hoping to open in 2004,
with construction starting later this year, we better get a move on
and stop playing tent makers.

Kit, without me going down to the NRM, can you remember if the
trailer
car bogie wheels are smaller than the driving wheels, and if so,
what size are they, the driving wheels are 3.5 feet if I remember
correctly.

More work on the E train bogies tonight, so maybe the release of the
beta isnt far away now, watch this space.

Paul....

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@c...> wrote:

> Paul and Nick,
>
> >2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50

mph in

> the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = >720 - drag, should do

the trick.

>
> >One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power so

Im sure

> it could be done again, but it would >be better and simpler to do

as Kit

> suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for this

purpose.<

>
> Moving turbine #5 back to the APU position and doing the re-wiring

to the

> engine controls would be a MAMMOTH task, to say the least! The

Dale diesel

> APU sets we had were over-sized anyway, so we'd maybe only need

abou 150 hp

> to provide enough power for the system services.
>
> That's a guess, BTW, not to be quoted as gospel <g>
>
> The technical problems about moving E-Train under her own power,

or even

> being towed on the track, are possibly mere bagatelles compared to

the

> political issues involved. For a start, would Railtrack Mk2 even

sanction

> the move anyway, remembering the wheel/axles haven't been looked

at in 26

> years and the power cars are almost certainly out of gauge for the

route,

> which would have to be surveyed foot by foot.
>
> Whichever option is chosen, there is a LOT of work involved, and

I'm not at

> all sure we're moving fast enough to do it tthe time planned.
>
> In passing Paul, is the Easter Weekend on or off? I don't get back

from the

> US until the Wed before and I'd need to home beforehand somehow.
>
> Regards
> Kit

Hi Gerry,
Sounds really interesting about the tape deck, Im sure the NRM would
be interested in it for display.

If you could get that sorted it would be brilliant.

Thanks

Paul

Good news about Kuju and the 'E', what about the P then ?


Dave Babb, APT-P


|---------+---------------------------->
| | "Silver_Dream_Rac|
| | er" |
| | <Pal@...|
| | l.co.uk> |
| | |
| | 03/20/2002 01:41 |
| | PM |
| | Please respond to|
| | Advanced-Passenge|
| | r-Train |
| | |
|---------+---------------------------->

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| |
| To: undisclosed-recipients:;, Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com |
| cc: |
| Subject: [APT Group] Re: Moving E-Train |
| |
| |

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Hi Kit,
The Easter weekend is off, as Im going away for the weekend, 30 - 1
st April.

There is another cab-it weekend later in the year, so maybe we could
get things sorted for then, PC2 still doesnt have a floor.

We could borrow the PC used to display MSTS and show it in TC1 VIP,
with a copy of E train running on it, should be done and dusted by
then, with sounds and a full cab,  PRAY PRAY PRAY..................

Kuju have seen my model of E train and asked for a copy of it, or so
Im told by Robin at the NRM.

It was announce this week that 4.9 million pounds of funding towards
Shildon has been agreed, the out post is now hoping to open in 2004,
with construction starting later this year, we better get a move on
and stop playing tent makers.

Kit, without me going down to the NRM, can you remember if the
trailer
car bogie wheels are smaller than the driving wheels, and if so,
what size are they, the driving wheels are 3.5 feet if I remember
correctly.

More work on the E train bogies tonight, so maybe the release of the
beta isnt far away now, watch this space.

Paul....

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., Kit Spackman
<101453.3657@c...> wrote:

> Paul and Nick,
>
> >2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50

mph in

> the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = >720 - drag, should do

the trick.

>
> >One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power so

Im sure

> it could be done again, but it would >be better and simpler to  do

as Kit

> suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for  this

purpose.<

>
> Moving turbine #5 back to the APU position and doing the re-wiring

to the

> engine controls would be a MAMMOTH task, to say the least! The

Dale diesel

> APU sets we had were over-sized anyway, so we'd maybe only need

abou 150 hp

> to provide enough power for the system services.
>
> That's a guess, BTW, not to be quoted as gospel <g>
>
> The technical problems about moving E-Train under her own power,

or even

> being towed on the track, are possibly mere bagatelles compared to

the

> political issues involved. For a start, would Railtrack Mk2 even

sanction

> the move anyway, remembering the wheel/axles haven't been looked

at in 26

> years and the power cars are almost certainly out of gauge for the

route,

> which would have to be surveyed foot by foot.
>
> Whichever option is chosen, there is a LOT of work involved, and

I'm not at

> all sure we're moving fast enough to do it tthe time planned.
>
> In passing Paul, is the Easter Weekend on or off? I don't get back

from the

> US until the Wed before and I'd need to home beforehand somehow.
>
> Regards
> Kit

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT
[IMAGE]


[IMAGE]



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Kuju are interesting in the model of locos in the national
collection, maybe someone should tell them that P train, or at least
one of its powercars are in the national collection, and also that P
train should have been included as it holds the british speed record.

David, Ive heard that abacus are interesting in you brilliant P
train and Robs cab.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., "David Babb" <babbd@u...>
wrote:

>
> Good news about Kuju and the 'E', what about the P then ?
>
>
> Dave Babb, APT-P
>
>
> |---------+---------------------------->
> | | "Silver_Dream_Rac|
> | | er" |
> | | <Pal@y...|
> | | l.co.uk> |
> | | |
> | | 03/20/2002 01:41 |
> | | PM |
> | | Please respond to|
> | | Advanced-Passenge|
> | | r-Train |
> | | |
> |---------+---------------------------->
> >----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------|

>

|
|

> | To: undisclosed-recipients:;, Advanced-Passenger-

Train@y... |

> |

cc:
|

> | Subject: [APT Group] Re: Moving E-

Train
|

>

|
|

>

|
|

> >----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------|

>
>
>
>
> Hi Kit,
> The Easter weekend is off, as Im going away for the weekend, 30 - 1
> st April.
>
> There is another cab-it weekend later in the year, so maybe we

could

> get things sorted for then, PC2 still doesnt have a floor.
>
> We could borrow the PC used to display MSTS and show it in TC1 VIP,
> with a copy of E train running on it, should be done and dusted by
> then, with sounds and a full cab,  PRAY PRAY PRAY..................
>
> Kuju have seen my model of E train and asked for a copy of it, or

so

> Im told by Robin at the NRM.
>
> It was announce this week that 4.9 million pounds of funding

towards

> Shildon has been agreed, the out post is now hoping to open in

2004,

> with construction starting later this year, we better get a move on
> and stop playing tent makers.
>
> Kit, without me going down to the NRM, can you remember if the
> trailer
> car bogie wheels are smaller than the driving wheels, and if so,
> what size are they, the driving wheels are 3.5 feet if I remember
> correctly.
>
> More work on the E train bogies tonight, so maybe the release of

the

> beta isnt far away now, watch this space.
>
> Paul....
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., Kit Spackman
> <101453.3657@c...> wrote:
> > Paul and Nick,
> >
> > >2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50
> mph in
> > the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = >720 - drag, should do
> the trick.
> >
> > >One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power

so

> Im sure
> > it could be done again, but it would >be better and simpler to 

do

> as Kit
> > suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for  this
> purpose.<
> >
> > Moving turbine #5 back to the APU position and doing the re-

wiring

> to the
> > engine controls would be a MAMMOTH task, to say the least! The
> Dale diesel
> > APU sets we had were over-sized anyway, so we'd maybe only need
> abou 150 hp
> > to provide enough power for the system services.
> >
> > That's a guess, BTW, not to be quoted as gospel <g>
> >
> > The technical problems about moving E-Train under her own power,
> or even
> > being towed on the track, are possibly mere bagatelles compared

to

> the
> > political issues involved. For a start, would Railtrack Mk2 even
> sanction
> > the move anyway, remembering the wheel/axles haven't been looked
> at in 26
> > years and the power cars are almost certainly out of gauge for

the

> route,
> > which would have to be surveyed foot by foot.
> >
> > Whichever option is chosen, there is a LOT of work involved, and
> I'm not at
> > all sure we're moving fast enough to do it tthe time planned.
> >
> > In passing Paul, is the Easter Weekend on or off? I don't get

back

> from the
> > US until the Wed before and I'd need to home beforehand somehow.
> >
> > Regards
> > Kit
>
>
>

> Yahoo! Groups

Sponsor

>

>

>

>

ADVERTISEMENT

>

[IMAGE]

>

>

>

[IMAGE]

>

>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

There has been some interest, need to follow it up.

Dave Babb,


|---------+---------------------------->
| | "Silver_Dream_Rac|
| | er" |
| | <Pal@...|
| | l.co.uk> |
| | |
| | 03/20/2002 02:49 |
| | PM |
| | Please respond to|
| | Advanced-Passenge|
| | r-Train |
| | |
|---------+---------------------------->

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

| |
| To: undisclosed-recipients:;, Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com |
| cc: |
| Subject: [APT Group] Re: Moving E-Train |
| |
| |

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Kuju are interesting in the model of locos in the national
collection, maybe someone should tell them that P train, or at least
one of its powercars are in the national collection, and also that P
train should have been included as it holds the british speed record.

David, Ive heard that abacus are interesting in you brilliant P
train and Robs cab.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., "David Babb" <babbd@u...>
wrote:

>
> Good news about Kuju and the 'E', what about the P then ?
>
>
> Dave Babb, APT-P
>
>
> |---------+---------------------------->
> |         |           "Silver_Dream_Rac|
> |         |           er"              |
> |         |           <Pal@y...|
> |         |           l.co.uk>         |
> |         |                            |
> |         |           03/20/2002 01:41 |
> |         |           PM               |
> |         |           Please respond to|
> |         |           Advanced-Passenge|
> |         |           r-Train          |
> |         |                            |
> |---------+---------------------------->
>   >----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------|

>

|
                                                          |

>   |       To:       undisclosed-recipients:;, Advanced-Passenger-

Train@y...                                           |

>   |

cc:
                                                  |

>   |       Subject:  [APT Group] Re: Moving E-

Train
               |

>

|
                                                          |

>

|
                                                          |

>   >----------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------|

>
>
>
>
>  Hi Kit,
> The Easter weekend is off, as Im going away for the weekend, 30 - 1
> st April.
>
> There is another cab-it weekend later in the year, so maybe we

could

> get things sorted for then, PC2 still doesnt have a floor.
>
> We could borrow the PC used to display MSTS and show it in TC1 VIP,
> with a copy of E train running on it, should be done and dusted by
> then, with sounds and a full cab,  PRAY PRAY PRAY..................
>
> Kuju have seen my model of E train and asked for a copy of it, or

so

> Im told by Robin at the NRM.
>
> It was announce this week that 4.9 million pounds of funding

towards

> Shildon has been agreed, the out post is now hoping to open in

2004,

> with construction starting later this year, we better get a move on
> and stop playing tent makers.
>
> Kit, without me going down to the NRM, can you remember if the
> trailer
> car bogie wheels are smaller than the driving wheels, and if so,
> what size are they, the driving wheels are 3.5 feet if I remember
> correctly.
>
> More work on the E train bogies tonight, so maybe the release of

the

> beta isnt far away now, watch this space.
>
> Paul....
>
> --- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., Kit Spackman
> <101453.3657@c...> wrote:
> > Paul and Nick,
> >
> > >2 turbines in good working order should be able to reach 40 - 50
> mph in
> > the end, in three car form. 2 x 360 hp = >720 - drag, should do
> the trick.
> >
> > >One of the turbines was origionaly used to produce auxil power

so

> Im sure
> > it could be done again, but it would >be better and simpler to

do

> as Kit
> > suggested and place a small generator in the APU bay for  this
> purpose.<
> >
> > Moving turbine #5 back to the APU position and doing the re-

wiring

> to the
> > engine controls would be a MAMMOTH task, to say the least! The
> Dale diesel
> > APU sets we had were over-sized anyway, so we'd maybe only need
> abou 150 hp
> > to provide enough power for the system services.
> >
> > That's a guess, BTW, not to be quoted as gospel <g>
> >
> > The technical problems about moving E-Train under her own power,
> or even
> > being towed on the track, are possibly mere bagatelles compared

to

> the
> > political issues involved. For a start, would Railtrack Mk2 even
> sanction
> > the move anyway, remembering the wheel/axles haven't been looked
> at in 26
> > years and the power cars are almost certainly out of gauge for

the

> route,
> > which would have to be surveyed foot by foot.
> >
> > Whichever option is chosen, there is a LOT of work involved, and
> I'm not at
> > all sure we're moving fast enough to do it tthe time planned.
> >
> > In passing Paul, is the Easter Weekend on or off? I don't get

back

> from the
> > US until the Wed before and I'd need to home beforehand somehow.
> >
> > Regards
> > Kit
>
>
>

>                                    Yahoo! Groups

Sponsor

>

>

>

>

ADVERTISEMENT

>

[IMAGE]

>

>

>

[IMAGE]

>

>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.



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ADVERTISEMENT
[IMAGE]


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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Paul

I'll follow it up. The unfortunate thing is that a bank of D-A (that's Data Acquisition of Stockport) instrumentation amplifiers, identical to those which were fitted in the rack in TC2, have been slung.

Cheers

Gerry

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 20/03/02 at 13:46 Silver_Dream_Racer wrote:

>Hi Gerry,
>Sounds really interesting about the tape deck, Im sure the NRM would
>be interested in it for display.
>
>If you could get that sorted it would be brilliant.
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Paul,
I thought there was an E-train work day this
saturday 23/3/02, is this right? I did try to look on
your website but I can't get to it at the moment

regards

Laurie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Yes Laurie thats correct, ive check the website just in case it was
off line, prestel have done it before but it seems fine.

Same as last time, 10am start, 4pm finish.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., Laurie Still
<laurie_still@y...> wrote:

> Paul,
> I thought there was an E-train work day this
> saturday 23/3/02, is this right? I did try to look on
> your website but I can't get to it at the moment
>
> regards
>
> Laurie
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com

I've seen pictures of Hornby's P train in OO scale. I
was wondering if the E train was ever replicated, and
if not, what about getting something started to ask
Hornby if they might make one. I'm sure it would be a
hot seller as the number of APT enthusiasts seems to
keep growing.

Aaron Taffera

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Hi Aaron,
no commercial OO models of the E Train were made - however
several people have either scratch built or modified Hornby P Trains
to suit.


See one by S Smith -

http://www.apt-p.com/APTModelSSmith.htm



Also a number of members of this group have or are currently
modelling E & P trains in N Gauge. - No doubt they will write more of
their progress here in reply.


Rob
www.apt-p.com

Hi everyone

In 1979, BTF (British Transport Films) produced a 27 minute long film
called "A New Age For Railways. The catalogue description for this title
was as follows...

"In a world growing ever shorter of energy, railways are well suited to
satisfy the world's future transport needs. This is the story of the new
railways in Japan, Britain, Germany, France, Poland and Italy."

The British portion of the film is dedicated to the HST & APT but
predominantly the APT (E & P).

I don't believe this film has ever been released on home video (unless
it's on the BCL APT Video), but I've got a new toy (video capture card)
and have grabbed the Britain segment. It's just under 3 minutes long but
Real Player has screwed down the file size to a modest 716k. The
trade-off is relatively poor image quality - it's still perfectly
watchable though!

The clip can be seen at the following URL...

http://www.derby.org/wheaty/BT1255/BT1255_APT.rm

I'd be most interested in receiving comments from Kit & the team as to
what they think of it. Additionally, I'd be very interested in any
reminisces about their personal experiences with BTF film crew -
characters, procedures, anecdotes, etc, as part of my research into the
history of BTF.

Enjoy the clip!

Nick
Webmaster - http://www.britishtransportfilms.co.uk

PS - APT webmasters are free to add this clip to their websites - all I
ask is a return link to my site, ta!

Aaron,

>.....what about getting something started to ask Hornby if they might make

one. I'm sure it would be a

>hot seller as the number of APT enthusiasts seems to keep growing. <

I'm afraid that's 100% unlikely. No mass market model producer is
interested in ANY project unless it can sell in millions, and despite our
great interest, Joe Modelling Public doesn't give a damn. If they did the
Hornby P-Train would still be in prroduuction now.

In passing, I did hear of a fiberglass body shell kit of the E-Train in the
late '70s, but nothing ever came to light. I have no idea how the producer
intended to do the articulation either.

-----------------------

Nick,

>Additionally, I'd be very interested in any reminisces about their

personal experiences with BTF film crew -

>characters, procedures, anecdotes, etc, as part of my research into the

history of BTF.<

I could write a book................. <g>

I'll try and get something on screen for you when I get back to the UK.

Regards
Kit

Hi everyone

Might be rare...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1086663258

Regards

Nick

Hi everyone

Movietone News covered the then new APT-E on test in July 1972...

http://www.derby.org/wheaty/misc/APTE.rm

Regards

Nick

Nick,

>Movietone News covered the then new APT-E on test in July 1972...

>http://www.derby.org/wheaty/misc/APTE.rm<

Excellent clip that, well spotted. That was the first main line test, viz
the close-up of the Swinging Arm bogie under thhe joint module. As the
unions 'blacked' the project immediately afterward the SA bogies were
changed to E1-Ts sooner than planned and we never ran on SA's again.

The guy wearing the nice line in headsets is Malcolm Wilson, our main
instrumentation engineer and a totally warped one too! <g> With Malc on
board there was never a lack of humour, even in our darkest moments he'd
come up witth some quip tthat had us all in stitches. The guy in the beard
looking at the UV recorder is Roy Hartle, Malc's Boss.

You can't see me in it anywhere as I was lying on the floor of tthe centre
joint module with my head sticking out underneath watching the SA bogies
for signs of hunting. We'd commsissioned the tilt system in both trailers
cars by then, but they wouldn't let us run 'active' on that first run,
spoil sports!

Regards
Kit

Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Petition to request that Yahoo Inc reconsider their decision to charge fees
for pop mail, groups, and homepages"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/11213/

I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.


Best Wishes,
Ian

P.S. At this moment in time Yahoo! are only charging for their email
services, it won't be long before they will be charging to use Yahoo Groups.
Read the last paragraph of this news story I received from a friend:

Yahoo Inc. said Thursday it will begin charging a fee to users of its e-mail
service to gain access to Yahoo mail from outside e-mail systems, and to
automatically forward Yahoo mail to other addresses. Beginning April 24 ,
Yahoo will charge e-mail users $29.99 annually to continue mail-forwarding
and what's known as POP3 access. The fee will also cover new features,
including an increase in the size limit of attached files to five megabytes
from 1.5MB, and the option of sending messages without the Yahoo promotional
text at the bottom. Yahoo's standard Web-based e-mail service will remain
free.

The change is part of Yahoo's continuing effort to introduce new paid
services. Yahoo is trying to diversify its revenue base so that it doesn't
rely as heavily upon online advertising as it has in the past.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

The following Advanced-Passenger-Train poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: Which looks best?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- APT-E, 4 votes, 30.77%
- APT-P, 7 votes, 53.85%
- Virgin Pendolino, 2 votes, 15.38%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

Hi fellahs

Another APT item has surfaced

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1090509858

I've got one of these but in lass than mint condition. Even so, be
interesting to know what it fetches.

Nick

Hi all,
APT-E beta 1.0 is now ready for downloading.

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/york1/etrain/etrain.htm

Its about a meg in size so happy downloading.

Any comments please.

Regards

Paul
APT-E Conservation & Support Group

Hey Paul

Not bad, in fact it is bloody good.
Keep up the good work, cab view will be the next major task i take it?

regards
Nick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Silver_Dream_Racer" <Pal@...>
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: [APT Group] APT-E ready for download


> Hi all,
> APT-E beta 1.0 is now ready for downloading.
>
> http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/york1/etrain/etrain.htm
>
> Its about a meg in size so happy downloading.
>
> Any comments please.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
> APT-E Conservation & Support Group
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi Paul
- CONGRATULATIONS on releasing your APT-E to the
World ! -
hope you've got a download counter on that file ! - I bet it will
shoot up
in the next week !

Best Wishes


Rob
www.apt-p.com

Hi all,
the work is now complete on converting 48404 into the
exhibition coach - now we just need an exhibition !


Any ideas - photos - items - text - would be most welcome !

www.apt-p.com/APTExhibition.htm

I have completed the video to be shown onboard ! - and have access to
a digital 'wet' photo lab to produce 'proper' photographic images
upto 18" x 12" !

Look forward to your input !


Rob

See VT press release at -

http://www.apt-p.com/VirginAndAPTP.htm


Rob

Text of VT Press Release -


Two generations of tilting trains meet up

Virgin Trains and Pete Waterman's London & North Western Railway
Company have teamed up to start restoration work on the world's first
tilting train this spring.

The Advanced Passenger Train (APT) has been exhibited at The Railway
Age museum, Crewe since 1988 and can be viewed from passing trains on
the West Coast Main Line. The exterior condition of the APT has
seriously deteriorated and Virgin Trains has undertaken to make the
train look spick-and-span in time to meet the next generation of
Pendolinos which will start running past the museum this summer.

Pete Waterman said: "I am delighted that Virgin Trains has recognised
the contribution that the APT made in developing the tilting train
concept. The APT was an important development in our history and the
partnership between Virgin Trains and the London & North Western
Company will provide a reminder of the link between the APT and the
Pendolino."

Chris Green, Chief Executive of Virgin Trains said: "The Pendolino
owes its existence to the Advanced Passenger Train. My aim is to see
our first Pendolino pausing at Crewe next to a pristine APT as a
tribute to the visionary engineers who have brought the tilting train
to the UK."

The Advanced Passenger Train was ahead of its time in the 1980s when
it achieved a UK speed record of 162mph and a record journey time
from London to Glasgow of just 3hrs 52mins. The three APT test trains
were finally abandoned in 1987 and it was left to Sweden and Italy to
evolve this UK invention into commercial production.

53 tilting Pendolino trains are now under manufacture at ALSTOM's
Birmingham factory and six of these trains have already been
delivered for the start of passenger services planned to start this
summer.

Ends

Issued by Virgin Trains Corporate Affairs Office – 0870 789 1111

Hello Group,

Great News! Just a few of questions....

1) Is the APT-P going to have a full re-paint? If so, who will be re-
painting it? Is there any paint/transfers still hanging around after
20+ years?

2) How long will it take to fully re-paint the train?

3) Will it have full Yellow cab ends or will it have the Black window
surround?

4) If it's not going to have a full re-paint, what is needed to make
the train look spick-and-span?


Thanks in Advance,
Ian

>The exterior condition of the APT has seriously deteriorated and

Virgin Trains has undertaken to make the train look spick-and-span in
time to meet the next generation of Pendolinos which will start
running past the museum this summer.

Attachments :

Hi everyone

Later than I had hoped, two more movie clips of the APT from BTF films
in Real Player format are now online :-

Discovering Railways (1977)
http://www.derby.org/wheaty/BT1209/BT1209_apt.rm

Partners In Prosperity (1980)
http://www.derby.org/wheaty/BT1280/BT1280_apt.rm

These are quite short clips and use standard footage (although the
second one may use previously unused run past shots of the P Train) with
differing narration.

Regards

Nick
webmaster - http://www.britishtransportfilms.co.uk