Messages in Advanced-Passenger-Train group. Page 13 of 68.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 627 From: kthtl Date: 25/01/2002
Subject: Re: APT Photos
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 629 From: Andy Appleton Date: 28/01/2002
Subject: Cab Ride in a Tilting Train!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 630 From: xd_andy Date: 02/02/2002
Subject: Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 631 From: Nick Evans Date: 02/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 632 From: Silver_Dream_Racer Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 633 From: xd_andy Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 634 From: xd_andy Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 635 From: aptp370 Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: HORNBY PRICES
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 636 From: Peter Ineson Date: 04/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 276
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 637 From: stevenmosbycouk Date: 04/02/2002
Subject: Hornby APT set and APT badge for sale!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 638 From: Steven Mosby Date: 04/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Hornby APT set and APT badge for sale!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 639 From: Natalie Jones Date: 06/02/2002
Subject: APT Boarding Passes
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 640 From: Andy Appleton Date: 07/02/2002
Subject: 1984 APT Railway Cover
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 641 From: Kit Spackman Date: 07/02/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 278
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 642 From: aptp370 Date: 08/02/2002
Subject: Boarding Pass
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 643 From: aptp370 Date: 08/02/2002
Subject: MSTS APT-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 644 From: Natalie Jones Date: 08/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Boarding Pass
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 645 From: Ian Ellis Date: 08/02/2002
Subject: APT-E Pendolino!
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 646 From: Nick Wheat Date: 11/02/2002
Subject: Ebay item
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 647 From: dave_babb Date: 11/02/2002
Subject: ATP-P
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 648 From: this_is_a_wind_up Date: 17/02/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 649 From: Nick Wheat Date: 21/02/2002
Subject: Railnews
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 650 From: Andy Appleton Date: 22/02/2002
Subject: Hornby R543 APT For Sale
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 654 From: Nick Wheat Date: 26/02/2002
Subject: More Ebay
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 655 From: Kit Spackman Date: 26/02/2002
Subject: APT Ties
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 656 From: apt_p Date: 27/02/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay item
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 657 From: Laurie Still Date: 28/02/2002
Subject: apt-p: formation question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 658 From: Gerry Bates Date: 28/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] apt-p: formation question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 659 From: Kit Spackman Date: 28/02/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 288
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 660 From: modelefx Date: 01/03/2002
Subject: Re: apt-p: formation question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 661 From: Pape Timothy Date: 01/03/2002
Subject: This message is UNCLASSIFIED.RE: [APT Group] apt-p: formation que s
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 662 From: Nick Evans Date: 02/03/2002
Subject: Re: This message is UNCLASSIFIED.RE: [APT Group] apt-p: formation
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 663 From: Kit Spackman Date: 02/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 289
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 664 From: Kit Spackman Date: 03/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 290
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 665 From: Andy Appleton Date: 03/03/2002
Subject: Driving Trailer Lifted Nose Cone
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 666 From: Gerry Bates Date: 03/03/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 290
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 667 From: Kit Spackman Date: 04/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 291
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 668 From: Gerry Bates Date: 05/03/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 291
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 669 From: Laurie Still Date: 06/03/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 670 From: Pape Timothy Date: 06/03/2002
Subject: This message is UNCLASSIFIED. RE: [APT Group] Digest Number 288
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 671 From: Kit Spackman Date: 06/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 293
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 672 From: Silver_Dream_Racer Date: 07/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 673 From: Nick Wheat Date: 07/03/2002
Subject: Re: RCN: MAGLEV
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 674 From: Nick Evans Date: 07/03/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 675 From: Kit Spackman Date: 08/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 294
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 676 From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/03/2002
Subject: Poll results for Advanced-Passenger-Train
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 677 From: Kit Spackman Date: 11/03/2002
Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 296
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 678 From: David Babb Date: 11/03/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 296
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 679 From: Andy Appleton Date: 13/03/2002
Subject: OT: Class 390 (Pendolino) Yahoo! Group
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 680 From: F NW Date: 14/03/2002
Subject: Tilt Question


Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 627 From: kthtl Date: 25/01/2002
Subject: Re: APT Photos
--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., "Andy Appleton"
<AndyAppleton@b...> wrote:
> Apologies for the poor quality. My friend has only just received
his slide scanner back from repair. I will repost the two worse ones.
i.e. 48103 & 48107.
>
> Take Care,
> Andy

Evening All,

The scanner is going back again to the supplier I think it is fairly
obvious that it is still not working correctly.

Cheers for now,

Keith Till.
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 629 From: Andy Appleton Date: 28/01/2002
Subject: Cab Ride in a Tilting Train!
Would you like to take a cab ride in a tilting train? If so, Ian Allan have the next best thing - the video - "Ticket To Ride: ICT Cab Ride Plus - Singen to Stuttgart" priced £18.50.
 
It takes a cab ride on one of the superb ICT sets through the lovely scenery between Singen and Stuttgart, and has the addition of a technical description of the ICT supplied by the manufacturer, Siemens. Below is the link:
 
 
 
Take Care,
Andy
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 630 From: xd_andy Date: 02/02/2002
Subject: Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Perhaps I'm being a bit rude, this being my first post to a new
group, but I'm hoping that you may be able to offer some advice.

I've recently just finished clearing out my parents house of all my
old 'junk', and came across something I'd forgotten all about.

A Hornby Railways R794 Advanced Passenger Train Pack, fully boxed,
and completely unused.

It was origonally bought as a birthday present when my Father
decided he and I should build a model railway set; unfortunately
the 'loft' became 2 bedrooms and a sitting room, so the project is
still currently 'on hold' ;)

Anyway, I have very little idea about model trains as a hobby, so I
have no idea if there is any value to this, other than sentimental.

My concern is should there be any value to it, how should I
take 'proper care' of the set; so far one local dealer has told me
that although 18 odd years old, "these sets are pretty common"....
oh and he'd be happy to "take it off my hands for £15, £20 if the
box was in good condition, but honestly the APT set is of little
value."

I'd appreciate any advice you may have.

Thanks in Advance(d)...

Andy
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 631 From: Nick Evans Date: 02/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
LOL, apt set of little value???
a guy i know who also owns a model shop, i once asked where i can get one of
these for, and he said unlikly to get it for less then £150.

That guy you spoke to must be some sort of rip-off merchent.

However if you are looking for a buyer, i would be willing to take it off
your hands.

Regards
Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: "xd_andy" <andy.ody@...>
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:35 PM
Subject: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack


Perhaps I'm being a bit rude, this being my first post to a new
group, but I'm hoping that you may be able to offer some advice.

I've recently just finished clearing out my parents house of all my
old 'junk', and came across something I'd forgotten all about.

A Hornby Railways R794 Advanced Passenger Train Pack, fully boxed,
and completely unused.

It was origonally bought as a birthday present when my Father
decided he and I should build a model railway set; unfortunately
the 'loft' became 2 bedrooms and a sitting room, so the project is
still currently 'on hold' ;)

Anyway, I have very little idea about model trains as a hobby, so I
have no idea if there is any value to this, other than sentimental.

My concern is should there be any value to it, how should I
take 'proper care' of the set; so far one local dealer has told me
that although 18 odd years old, "these sets are pretty common"....
oh and he'd be happy to "take it off my hands for £15, £20 if the
box was in good condition, but honestly the APT set is of little
value."

I'd appreciate any advice you may have.

Thanks in Advance(d)...

Andy






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 632 From: Silver_Dream_Racer Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Yep that guy in the model shop is trying to rip you off, £150+ is
the going price for a fair condition version. If you goto WWW.APT-
P.com and go to the model section, you can see what various packs
have gne for on Ebay.co.uk, I think the highest one went for over
£350. I purchased one myself last year for £128 and that was
for a
minter.

If you want to sell it, at least look at £150+, they are not
common
and very much sort after.

Regards

Paul

--- In Advanced-Passenger-Train@y..., "Nick Evans"
<nicky.p.evans@b...> wrote:
> LOL, apt set of little value???
> a guy i know who also owns a model shop, i once asked where i can
get one of
> these for, and he said unlikly to get it for less then £150.
>
> That guy you spoke to must be some sort of rip-off merchent.
>
> However if you are looking for a buyer, i would be willing to take
it off
> your hands.
>
> Regards
> Nick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "xd_andy" <andy.ody@b...>
> To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:35 PM
> Subject: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
>
>
> Perhaps I'm being a bit rude, this being my first post to a new
> group, but I'm hoping that you may be able to offer some advice.
>
> I've recently just finished clearing out my parents house of all my
> old 'junk', and came across something I'd forgotten all about.
>
> A Hornby Railways R794 Advanced Passenger Train Pack, fully boxed,
> and completely unused.
>
> It was origonally bought as a birthday present when my Father
> decided he and I should build a model railway set; unfortunately
> the 'loft' became 2 bedrooms and a sitting room, so the project is
> still currently 'on hold' ;)
>
> Anyway, I have very little idea about model trains as a hobby, so I
> have no idea if there is any value to this, other than sentimental.
>
> My concern is should there be any value to it, how should I
> take 'proper care' of the set; so far one local dealer has told me
> that although 18 odd years old, "these sets are pretty common"....
> oh and he'd be happy to "take it off my hands for £15, £20 if
the
> box was in good condition, but honestly the APT set is of little
> value."
>
> I'd appreciate any advice you may have.
>
> Thanks in Advance(d)...
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 633 From: xd_andy Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
Thanks for the reply Nick,

As I said, wasn't sure exactly if what I was being told was true,
but I'm not currently looking to sell it anyway.

It's more from the point of view of trying to work out it's 'true'
value, and should go as far as looking to get it insured. I'm
thinking if I've kept it this long unused, it might make a nice
collectors peice later on; having said THAT, my better half is
talking in terms of 'oh the (future) kids would LOVE to play with
it.......' hmmmm.

As far as I can work out, it seems as if only 30,000 of these were
ever made, in about 4 different set types and in 2 different
liveries. If I'm right, the one I've got only ever saw a production
run of about 7,500.

Equally, if I am going to keep it, do any of you have advice on how
to 'keep' it properly, albeit 18 yrs too late.

Thanks again,

Andy
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 634 From: xd_andy Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
PS...forgot to say, if anyone is interested in pictures of the set
(and I stress NOT from point of view of sale), I can upload some
here I guess.

I saw a previous post here about trying to confirm the 'exact'
contents of such a set, and this as this set is both complete and
unused it could be used for future reference.

Andy
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 635 From: aptp370 Date: 03/02/2002
Subject: HORNBY PRICES
SORRY FOR DELAY POP MAIL PROBLEMS TODAY AT APT-P.COM !


Hi Andy

that's not a rude question at all but it certainly sounds like
someone out to con you and make a quick
profit, take a look at www.apt-p.com/HornbyAPT.htm for an idea of the
range
of prices that the sets are fetching - note that some of those are the
'complete' set with track etc rather than the 'train pack' but even
so... an
unboxed five car set even unworking would still easily fetch in £ 70
or
more...

As for unopened box / mint condition who knows !!

Best Wishes


Rob Latham

APT-P Support Team
Crewe
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 636 From: Peter Ineson Date: 04/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 276
Cool, what a find! As for £20 quid for it! forget it, it's worth a lot more.
I emigrated out to Oz a year ago and before I left I managed to get one for
£70. At that time on ebay most where going for just over £100. Now they
appear to be selling around £200 (I think that's over twice the original
price). So I reckon they are are becoming a bit of a collector's item. My
advice pack it up carefully, put it in a safe place and to keep it (just
don't forget the safe place ;-)).

Hope this helps
Peter

________________________________________________________________________

Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:35:56 -0000
From: "xd_andy" <andy.ody@...>

Subject: Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack

Perhaps I'm being a bit rude, this being my first post to a new
group, but I'm hoping that you may be able to offer some advice.

I've recently just finished clearing out my parents house of all my
old 'junk', and came across something I'd forgotten all about.

A Hornby Railways R794 Advanced Passenger Train Pack, fully boxed,
and completely unused.

It was origonally bought as a birthday present when my Father
decided he and I should build a model railway set; unfortunately
the 'loft' became 2 bedrooms and a sitting room, so the project is
still currently 'on hold' ;)

Anyway, I have very little idea about model trains as a hobby, so I
have no idea if there is any value to this, other than sentimental.

My concern is should there be any value to it, how should I
take 'proper care' of the set; so far one local dealer has told me
that although 18 odd years old, "these sets are pretty common"....
oh and he'd be happy to "take it off my hands for £15, £20 if the
box was in good condition, but honestly the APT set is of little
value."

I'd appreciate any advice you may have.

Thanks in Advance(d)...

Andy

_______________________________________________________________________
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 637 From: stevenmosbycouk Date: 04/02/2002
Subject: Hornby APT set and APT badge for sale!
Hi all

At Ebay you can currnetly bid for a apt set that is apparently
hardly used, comes with no box or pantograph, and is currnetly going
for £100!

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1697083302

There is also a APT-E Badge (Not a security one) but one that looks
quite nice, and is going currently for ONLY £1! Seriously!

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1069465260

Steve Mosby :)
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 638 From: Steven Mosby Date: 04/02/2002
Subject: Re: [APT Group] Hornby APT set and APT badge for sale!
Afraid those links didnt work.. try these :)

APT SET: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1697083302
APT BADGE: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1069465260

Sorry about that :)

Steve Mosby
----- Original Message -----
From: "stevenmosbycouk" <steven.mosby@...>
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:03 PM
Subject: [APT Group] Hornby APT set and APT badge for sale!


Hi all

At Ebay you can currnetly bid for a apt set that is apparently
hardly used, comes with no box or pantograph, and is currnetly going
for £100!

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1697083302

There is also a APT-E Badge (Not a security one) but one that looks
quite nice, and is going currently for ONLY £1! Seriously!

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1069465260

Steve Mosby :)





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 639 From: Natalie Jones Date: 06/02/2002
Subject: APT Boarding Passes
Hi all

I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with a question I have. When I
worked for BR LMR back in the 1980s I was lucky enough to have a trip on
the APT from Euston to Glasgow Central. I still have in my possession the
pink boarding pass that you had to have to travel on the train. What I
can't remember is where would I have got this from prior to travel? Would
it have been the booking office at Euston ( and bearing in mind i was
travelling on a BR Priv free pass) or would it have been the ticket
collector at the barrier on the platform at Euston? Closer examination
reveals a perforated 'tear-off' portion to the left of the pass- would
anyone know who this part went to? Would it have been the guard on the
train or did they have 'stewards' Pullman style at the doors checking you
had a pass before you boarded?? Now I know I should be able to supply the
answers as I was there but it was September 1984 and I'm getting on a bit
now!! ( 35 in 10 days :-/ ) and I just can't remember and i was 17 at the
time..

Maybe someone could help answer these questions. I have scanned in and sent
a copy of the pass to Rob for inclusion hopefully on his excellent site. I
also have some details of the working instructions for the APT in the BR
publications like the Working Manual and such like. If my memory serves me
correctly I have some Special Traffic Notices for some of the Test runs. (
I used to work the signalboxes on the Trent Valley line) although being
blonde I could be mistaken!!

Hugs
Natalie
xx
Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 640 From: Andy Appleton Date: 07/02/2002
Subject: 1984 APT Railway Cover
Attachments :
    GB 1984 Irregular Passenger Trials of the InterCity APT on Benham silk Railway cover.
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 641 From: Kit Spackman Date: 07/02/2002
    Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 278
    Hello Natalie,

    When the P-Train was first in service you had to get the boarding pass by
    post from some nebulous office in Euston. I know they changed such an
    unwieldy system afterwards, but I don't know when.

    My First Trip boarding pass is a sort of pale cream if I remember. It's on
    the web site too, but my browser won't work right now :-(

    Regards
    Kit
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 642 From: aptp370 Date: 08/02/2002
    Subject: Boarding Pass
    Hi Natalie & Kit et al
    Sorry I've been having problems sending emails to the Group so
    haven't been able to tell everyone that your pass is uploaded to

    http://www.apt-p.com/APTPBoardingPass.htm

    Best Wishes


    Rob



    PS Natalie - can you send me a scn of those Working Timetables /
    Special Taffic Notices

    Thanks


    Rob
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 643 From: aptp370 Date: 08/02/2002
    Subject: MSTS APT-P
    In case you don't know David Babb has now released his APT-P for MS
    TrainSim it is available for download from

    http://www.uktrainsim.com/

    Sorry my cab view for it has been delayed, will let everyone know
    when it's fully finished !


    Best Wishes



    Rob

    Drive Carefully !
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 644 From: Natalie Jones Date: 08/02/2002
    Subject: Re: [APT Group] Boarding Pass
    Hi


    > Sorry I've been having problems sending emails to the Group so
    >haven't been able to tell everyone that your pass is uploaded to
    I've been having those problems too. My post took 3 attempts and a day to
    get online. I think it only succeeded because I posted it from the yahoo
    site rather than my email client.


    >PS Natalie - can you send me a scn of those Working Timetables /
    >Special Taffic Notices

    As and when I find them I will scan them and send them. I may not still
    have them in my possession but fingers crossed. As soon as I've laid my
    hands on them you will know. I've been tidying through all my stuff and the
    room they have been in at last after 2 years just moving my stuff into the
    room..


    Hugs
    Natalie
    xx
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 645 From: Ian Ellis Date: 08/02/2002
    Subject: APT-E Pendolino!
    Hi Folks,

    I have just found this message which was posted to the Class390 group:


    "Still undertaking 4 return trips daily Carlisle- Tebay. Universal
    platform end opinion is that this is a very good looking train-echoed
    by today's driver who stated it is bl***y marvellous to drive.
    Railtrack must also trust it as it runs without waiting for the
    passage of service trains. It left Carlisle on one run today just 4
    minutes ahead of the Voyagers on 1O40.

    For those who have seen the train close-up, the stencilled numbers 01
    and 03 which appear below the cab front window are there to identify
    the experimental wind deflectors fitted. That's what the driver said,
    anyway!

    Regards
    JP

    PS for Alstom - as the set rests in Carlisle station between runs and
    draws a lot of attention from the travelling public, how about giving
    it a clean? APT-E and Big Sprinter written in the dirt on the sides
    rather spoil the effect!"



    _________________________________________________________________
    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 646 From: Nick Wheat Date: 11/02/2002
    Subject: Ebay item
    Hi everyone

    One for the 'serious' APT collector

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1072881561

    Regards

    Nick
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 647 From: dave_babb Date: 11/02/2002
    Subject: ATP-P
    Just to let you know, I have released the ATP-P onto an unsuspecting
    world via UKTrainsim.com (+ a patch already ! Doh!)

    Its a fairly large download, if anyone wants it emailed to them, I
    can do that too.
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 648 From: this_is_a_wind_up Date: 17/02/2002
    Subject: Re: Off Topic :Hornby APT Train Pack
    Hello!

    A slightly used, boxed R794 should sell for between £175 and
    £225. If
    yours is genuinely "completely unused" then it should fetch a little
    more, perhaps £200 to £250.

    The exact price depends on many factors though, for example, an
    INCOMPLETE R543 set sold for £310 on eBay just before Christmas
    last
    year, but a COMPLETE R543 DID NOT RECEIVE ANY BIDS just two weeks
    earlier and eventually sold for £195 a few weeks later when it was
    re-
    listed.

    As for protection, there are a few obvious things to do:

    1) Keep the item away from strong lights, especially sunlight.
    2) Store the item in normal room conditions (temp, moisture, etc).
    3) Protect the exposed electrical parts (wheels, pickups, motor
    commutator, etc) with PECO electrolube (PL-64).
    4) Clean away old dried oil (use PL-64 again) and replace with new
    (esp. if you intend to run the train).

    Items 3 and 4 will require opening the power car – BE CAREFUL!

    Other than that, just handle the train with extreme care. Note that
    the electrical bus-bar along the top of the power-car and the
    pantograph, are extraordinarily fragile and practically impossible to
    replace - take care with these.

    Hope this helps.

    PS. Got any photos of it?
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 649 From: Nick Wheat Date: 21/02/2002
    Subject: Railnews
    Hi everyone

    The APT Special edition of Railnews c1980 is on Ebay

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1076388350

    Regards

    Nick
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 650 From: Andy Appleton Date: 22/02/2002
    Subject: Hornby R543 APT For Sale
    Hornby R543 APT for sale at ebay:
     
     
     
    Take Care,
    Andy
     
     
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 654 From: Nick Wheat Date: 26/02/2002
    Subject: More Ebay
    Hi folks

    Collectors of APT ties may be interested in this item:-

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1078064441

    Dubious pattern though!

    Regards

    Nick
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 655 From: Kit Spackman Date: 26/02/2002
    Subject: APT Ties
    Nick,

    >Collectors of APT ties may be interested in this item:-

    >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1078064441

    >Dubious pattern though!<

    No, I think it's the real thing. I've got two of those, it's a red
    background with a silver and black 'APT' motif woven nto it diagonally. It
    works both ways up, so they didn't have to worry which way they cut the
    cloth. . I wore mine at the E-Train Open Weekend last Easter.

    There was a ladies scarf in a smilar design too, and Mary has one hidden
    away somewhere.

    Regards
    Kit
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 656 From: apt_p Date: 27/02/2002
    Subject: Re: Ebay item
    And some more:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1078066506


    Take Care,
    Andy


    > Hi everyone
    >
    > One for the 'serious' APT collector
    >
    > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1072881561
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Nick
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 657 From: Laurie Still Date: 28/02/2002
    Subject: apt-p: formation question
    Hi,
    I have a question about the proposed formation of
    the APT.
    I read some where that the intention was to couple
    two sets together to form fourteen vehicle trains.

    Would this have been as follows?

    <-----**----->

    or

    <--*--><--*-->

    Where:
    < and > are DTS
    * is an NDM
    and - is any other trailers.

    I ask this in relation to a long term project to model
    what should have been. Is their any one on this list
    who has modelled the APT in N guage? If so I would
    love to hear from you about how you went about it. Or
    if any one has any suggestions etc

    yours sincerely

    Laurie


    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Everything you'll ever need on one web page
    from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
    http://uk.my.yahoo.com
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 658 From: Gerry Bates Date: 28/02/2002
    Subject: Re: [APT Group] apt-p: formation question
    Laurie

    I'm sure you'll get some more authoratative replies but the answer to your question is <-----**----->.

    A set was effectively half a train The two power cars had to be next to each other so that they could be coupled electrically at high voltage (25kV) so that only one pantograph could be used. More than one pantograph would lead to an unacceptable quality of current collection (ie wild variations in the force between the pantograph head and the wire, leading to arching if the pan left the wire and excessive uplift, which could cause other parts of the overhead equipment to be catastrophically hit by the pan head).

    The TGV (and Pendolino) solution is to run a bus-bar (bare conductor) on insulators down the roof of each vehicle, with a flexible high voltage connection between them. This was not considered practicable for APT.

    As there was no access for passengers through the power cars the two halves remained, effectively, two separate units.

    Regards

    Gerry Bates


    *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

    On 28/02/02 at 16:38 Laurie Still wrote:

    >Hi,
    > I have a question about the proposed formation of
    >the APT.
    > I read some where that the intention was to couple
    >two sets together to form fourteen vehicle trains.
    >
    >Would this have been as follows?
    >
    ><-----**----->
    >
    >or
    >
    ><--*--><--*-->
    >
    >Where:
    >< and > are DTS
    >* is an NDM
    >and - is any other trailers.
    >
    >I ask this in relation to a long term project to model
    >what should have been. Is their any one on this list
    >who has modelled the APT in N guage? If so I would
    >love to hear from you about how you went about it. Or
    >if any one has any suggestions etc
    >
    >yours sincerely
    >
    >Laurie
    >
    >
    >__________________________________________________
    >Do You Yahoo!?
    >Everything you'll ever need on one web page
    >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
    >http://uk.my.yahoo.com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 659 From: Kit Spackman Date: 28/02/2002
    Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 288
    Hello Laurie,

    >I have a question about the proposed formation of the APT.
    >I read some where that the intention was to couple two sets together to
    form fourteen vehicle trains.

    >Would this have been as follows?<

    <-----**----->

    or

    <--*--><--*-->

    >Where: < and > are DTS * is an NDM and - is any other trailers

    Your first config. is not only how it was proposed, that's how it ran too.
    In 'APT-speak' it was called a '2 plus 12'
    as opposed to a '1 plus 8' or a '2 plus 8' etc. As I recall the opening
    service was a '2 plus 8' with no-one in the front two vehicles, but I'd be
    just as happy if someone said otherwise.

    There weren't enough 'Driving Trailers' (DTS) built to make up your second
    config anyway.

    >I ask this in relation to a long term project to model what should have
    been. Is their any one on this list
    >who has modelled the APT in N guage? If so I would love to hear from you
    about how you went about it. Or
    >if any one has any suggestions etc<

    I've done half a job on an APT-E in N, but not progressed it for a good
    many years now. There's pics of one power car on the APT-E Train Support
    Groups site. I have the bones of the two trailer cars done as well but not
    the 2nd power car. The mechanical work needed is somewhat complex. If you'd
    like 'blow by blow'details I'd be happy to email you off list, as it twould
    cover a page or two.

    Having said that, doing an N gauge P Train could possibly be more
    difficult, for configuration reasons, but it depends on what's available on
    the market nowadays to start with.

    Regards
    Kit
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 660 From: modelefx Date: 01/03/2002
    Subject: Re: apt-p: formation question
    Hi,

    I currently have 'long term plans' to build a N-Scale APT-P.
    It's still in the early stages, but will happen. I plan to model in
    3d the cars and then use streo lithograph to 'grow' the basic
    shapes. These would then be cleaned, detailed and molded. Then cast
    in resin and eventually I'll create a power car to run the finished
    model.
    I'll be happy to supply kit parts and what directions I make up but
    it's atleast a year away with my work load.
    The first test model has been sent off to be grown and should be back
    soon. I'm having the test car made in 1/160th and 1/148th scale
    I've not decided 100% what scale to use but I'm guessing 1/148th as
    this is the British N-Scale, correct me if I'm wrong I live in the US
    now :-)

    Lee
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 661 From: Pape Timothy Date: 01/03/2002
    Subject: This message is UNCLASSIFIED.RE: [APT Group] apt-p: formation que s
    Hi,

    I am trying to model the APT-P and the APT-E in 'N' Gauge, but I am finding it quite difficult to work out how to form the profile of the vehicles. I would be very interested to hear your technique, as I think other peoples ideas can help a lot. I have tried forming the profiles from card, but these warp too easily when glue is applied. I've tried balsa for one of the nose sections, but am not happy with the finish. My latest attempt is to use wood, shaped on a sanding disc, and then forming moulds from this out of silicon rubber. I am then going to try casting with resin. Hopefully this will do the trick.


    The formation of the 14 car trains is <-----**----->, each section requiring its own catering facilities.
    I hope you have some ideas that you wouldn't mind sharing, I need some inspiration.

    Kindest regards,


    Tim Pape
    QinetiQ
    tjpape@...


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Laurie Still [mailto:laurie_still@...]
    Sent: 28 February 2002 16:39
    To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [APT Group] apt-p: formation question

    Hi,
    I have a question about the proposed formation of
    the APT.
    I read some where that the intention was to couple
    two sets together to form fourteen vehicle trains.

    Would this have been as follows?

    <-----**----->

    or

    <--*--><--*-->

    Where:
    < and > are DTS
    * is an NDM
    and - is any other trailers.

    I ask this in relation to a long term project to model
    what should have been. Is their any one on this list
    who has modelled the APT in N guage? If so I would
    love to hear from you about how you went about it. Or
    if any one has any suggestions etc

    yours sincerely

    Laurie


    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Everything you'll ever need on one web page
    from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
    http://uk.my.yahoo.com





    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



    --
    The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence
    is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s).
    For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
    or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is
    prohibited and may be unlawful.
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 662 From: Nick Evans Date: 02/03/2002
    Subject: Re: This message is UNCLASSIFIED.RE: [APT Group] apt-p: formation
    Hey all,
    Just wondering, would it be possable (in theory) to do
    <-----**-----><-----**-----> because i heard that the nose ends had
    electrical connectors as well.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Pape Timothy" <tjpape@...>
    To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:33 AM
    Subject: This message is UNCLASSIFIED.RE: [APT Group] apt-p: formation que
    stion


    > Hi,
    >
    > I am trying to model the APT-P and the APT-E in 'N' Gauge, but I am
    finding it quite difficult to work out how to form the profile of the
    vehicles. I would be very interested to hear your technique, as I think
    other peoples ideas can help a lot. I have tried forming the profiles from
    card, but these warp too easily when glue is applied. I've tried balsa for
    one of the nose sections, but am not happy with the finish. My latest
    attempt is to use wood, shaped on a sanding disc, and then forming moulds
    from this out of silicon rubber. I am then going to try casting with resin.
    Hopefully this will do the trick.
    >
    >
    > The formation of the 14 car trains is <-----**----->, each section
    requiring its own catering facilities.
    > I hope you have some ideas that you wouldn't mind sharing, I need some
    inspiration.
    >
    > Kindest regards,
    >
    >
    > Tim Pape
    > QinetiQ
    > tjpape@...
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Laurie Still [mailto:laurie_still@...]
    > Sent: 28 February 2002 16:39
    > To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [APT Group] apt-p: formation question
    >
    > Hi,
    > I have a question about the proposed formation of
    > the APT.
    > I read some where that the intention was to couple
    > two sets together to form fourteen vehicle trains.
    >
    > Would this have been as follows?
    >
    > <-----**----->
    >
    > or
    >
    > <--*--><--*-->
    >
    > Where:
    > < and > are DTS
    > * is an NDM
    > and - is any other trailers.
    >
    > I ask this in relation to a long term project to model
    > what should have been. Is their any one on this list
    > who has modelled the APT in N guage? If so I would
    > love to hear from you about how you went about it. Or
    > if any one has any suggestions etc
    >
    > yours sincerely
    >
    > Laurie
    >
    >
    > __________________________________________________
    > Do You Yahoo!?
    > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
    > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
    > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence
    > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s).
    > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
    > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information
    is
    > prohibited and may be unlawful.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 663 From: Kit Spackman Date: 02/03/2002
    Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 289
    i Lee,

    >The first test model has been sent off to be grown and should be back
    soon. >

    I've heard of 'High tech' solutions, but that one takes the cake! Growing
    an APT is a REALLY neat one!

    <G>

    >I'm having the test car made in 1/160th and 1/148th scale I've not
    decided 100% what scale to use but I'm >guessing 1/148th as this is the
    British N-Scale, correct me if I'm wrong I live in the US now :-)<

    Absolutely correct, but have you thought of doing it to 2mm/ft? That's the
    'purists' 9mm scale and it's handily half way between the two national
    standards at 1/152. That's the scale I did my APT-E in precisely because it
    could run on either standard and not look too out of place. Luckily APT's
    of either type are an odd shape anyway, and the viewer has no mental
    reference of how they look relative to the surroundings.

    I'm off to plant an E-Train now.................

    Regards
    Kit
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 664 From: Kit Spackman Date: 03/03/2002
    Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 290
    Nick,

    >Just wondering, would it be possable (in theory) to do
    <-----**-----><-----**-----> because i heard that the nose >ends had
    electrical connectors as well<

    That's true, the driving trailer nose cones hinge up, primarily for
    maintenance, but that also allowed access for a long drawbar to which a
    'normal' loco could couple in case the APT needed a tow. That's exactly how
    it appeared at the Rail 150 parade aof course, with a 47 on the front if I
    remember rightly.

    The connectors could couple together for slow speed movement in the yard
    although I've never seen a photo of it happening. Maybe Rob has one stashed
    away somewhere. It couldn't be used in service like that though because the
    raised nose cone would not only wreck the aerodynamics, but it would likely
    get blown right off at 150 mph+, not to mention probably being out of gauge
    too.

    Regards
    Kit
    Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 665 From: Andy Appleton Date: 03/03/2002
    Subject: Driving Trailer Lifted Nose Cone
    Attachments :
      370002 (48102) seen here showing off it's lifted nose cone, many thanks to Keith Till for this photo.
       
      Enjoy!
      Andy
       
      Copyright © Keith Till
       
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 666 From: Gerry Bates Date: 03/03/2002
      Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 290
      Kit

      I didn't like to stick my neck out until Andy's photo confirmed it, but I was sure that no coupling bar was necessary when the P-train nose-cone was raised. As shown, there is a drop-head buck-eye so they could couple directly. This could have been used for a P-train to rescue another without power but with pantographs on both trains raised you would be back to the current collection problem and speed would have to be limited.

      As regards aerodynamics I always felt that a high-speed loco (Class 91?) could be double-ended with swinging nose cones allowing better aerodynamics between loco and leading coach. It would be a question of wind tunnel tests to decide whether raised nose cones would be a disadvantage between coupled P-trains but, as you say, I'm sure they wouldn't be fixed solidly enough when raised for high speed use.

      Regards

      Gerry

      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

      On 03/03/02 at 08:58 Kit Spackman wrote:

      >Nick,
      >
      >>Just wondering, would it be possable (in theory) to do
      ><-----**-----><-----**-----> because i heard that the nose >ends had
      >electrical connectors as well<
      >
      >That's true, the driving trailer nose cones hinge up, primarily for
      >maintenance, but that also allowed access for a long drawbar to which a
      >'normal' loco could couple in case the APT needed a tow. That's exactly how
      >it appeared at the Rail 150 parade aof course, with a 47 on the front if I
      >remember rightly.
      >
      >The connectors could couple together for slow speed movement in the yard
      >although I've never seen a photo of it happening. Maybe Rob has one stashed
      >away somewhere. It couldn't be used in service like that though because the
      >raised nose cone would not only wreck the aerodynamics, but it would likely
      >get blown right off at 150 mph+, not to mention probably being out of gauge
      >too.
      >
      >Regards
      >Kit
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 667 From: Kit Spackman Date: 04/03/2002
      Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 291
      Hi Gerry,

      >I didn't like to stick my neck out until Andy's photo confirmed it, but I
      was sure that no coupling bar was >necessary when the P-train nose-cone was
      raised. As shown, there is a drop-head buck-eye so they could >couple
      directly. This could have been used for a P-train to rescue another without
      power but with pantographs >on both trains raised you would be back to the
      current collection problem and speed would have to be >limited.<

      Ahah, maybe I was thinking of an earlier proposal. I remember the CM&EE
      guys bringing a drawbar over to the APD Hall for testing and it was about 5
      ft long, and looked capable of towing the Forth Bridge, let alone a train!

      >As regards aerodynamics I always felt that a high-speed loco (Class 91?)
      could be double-ended with >swinging nose cones allowing better
      aerodynamics between loco and leading coach. It would be a question >of
      wind tunnel tests to decide whether raised nose cones would be a
      disadvantage between coupled P-trains >but, as you say, I'm sure they
      wouldn't be fixed solidly enough when raised for high speed use.<

      Interestingly the TGVs couple sets together nose to nose, but they have
      twin sideways opening doors which don't foul the gauge at all and from the
      look of it they use Scharfenberg couplers too.

      Anyone know if Eurostars couple like that too?

      Regards
      Kit
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 668 From: Gerry Bates Date: 05/03/2002
      Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 291
      Kit

      The Eurostars have the same opening doors and couplers. As on TGVs, the guide spigot - I'm not sure that's the correct terminology - for the coupler juts out from the closed doors.

      Regards

      Gerry

      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

      On 04/03/02 at 05:58 Kit Spackman wrote:

      >Hi Gerry,
      >
      >Interestingly the TGVs couple sets together nose to nose, but they have
      >twin sideways opening doors which don't foul the gauge at all and from the
      >look of it they use Scharfenberg couplers too.
      >
      >Anyone know if Eurostars couple like that too?
      >
      >Regards
      >Kit
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 669 From: Laurie Still Date: 06/03/2002
      Subject: Re: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question
      Hi there,
      Thanks to everyone who sent in an answer about the
      formation.
      My next question is: do the P-train trailers
      exhibit the same lateral (sliding not tilting)
      movement relative to their bogies on corners as
      E-train does?

      I don't want to be annoying, so if there is a FAQ
      please send me there! :)

      Thanks

      Laurie

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Everything you'll ever need on one web page
      from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
      http://uk.my.yahoo.com
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 670 From: Pape Timothy Date: 06/03/2002
      Subject: This message is UNCLASSIFIED. RE: [APT Group] Digest Number 288
      Hi Kit,

      I'd be interested to know you 'blow by blow' methods if possible, as it may help me to find a better way of forming the vehicles.

      Many thanks,

      Tim.
      Tim Pape
      QinetiQ
      tjpape@...


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kit Spackman [mailto:101453.3657@...]
      Sent: 28 February 2002 19:05
      To: INTERNET:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 288

      Hello Laurie,

      >I have a question about the proposed formation of the APT.
      >I read some where that the intention was to couple two sets together to
      form fourteen vehicle trains.

      >Would this have been as follows?<

      <-----**----->

      or

      <--*--><--*-->

      >Where: < and > are DTS * is an NDM and - is any other trailers

      Your first config. is not only how it was proposed, that's how it ran too.
      In 'APT-speak' it was called a '2 plus 12'
      as opposed to a '1 plus 8' or a '2 plus 8' etc. As I recall the opening
      service was a '2 plus 8' with no-one in the front two vehicles, but I'd be
      just as happy if someone said otherwise.

      There weren't enough 'Driving Trailers' (DTS) built to make up your second
      config anyway.

      >I ask this in relation to a long term project to model what should have
      been. Is their any one on this list
      >who has modelled the APT in N guage? If so I would love to hear from you
      about how you went about it. Or
      >if any one has any suggestions etc<

      I've done half a job on an APT-E in N, but not progressed it for a good
      many years now. There's pics of one power car on the APT-E Train Support
      Groups site. I have the bones of the two trailer cars done as well but not
      the 2nd power car. The mechanical work needed is somewhat complex. If you'd
      like 'blow by blow'details I'd be happy to email you off list, as it twould
      cover a page or two.

      Having said that, doing an N gauge P Train could possibly be more
      difficult, for configuration reasons, but it depends on what's available on
      the market nowadays to start with.

      Regards
      Kit




      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



      --
      The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence
      is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s).
      For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
      or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is
      prohibited and may be unlawful.
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 671 From: Kit Spackman Date: 06/03/2002
      Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 293
      Laurie,

      >My next question is: do the P-train trailers exhibit the same lateral
      (sliding not tilting) movement relative to their >bogies on corners as
      E-train does?<

      Neither of them actually slide as such. The lateral motion on E-Train is
      due to the bodies being mounted on the ball-joints at the end of the
      steering beam. This is turn 'hangs' from the secondary air sprung
      bogieframe on two relatively short swinging arms. The steering beam lateral
      motion depends on the amount of lateral force on the mass of the bodies and
      the beam, but it is also affected by the tilt angle via a bell-crank
      linkeage.

      The effect of all this lot is to make the beam and bodies 'swing' sideways
      in the opposite direction to the tilt angle, ie it moves outward on bends.
      This ensures the whole assembly stays within the loading gauge as it tilts
      and curves.

      On the P-Train there isn't a steering beam as such, as the ends of the
      bodies are mounted on the tilting frames via the air springs. The tilting
      frames also hang from swinging arms, but tin this case they are longer than
      the E-Train ones and effectively tilt and move laterally at the same time.
      Because these frames are hung from the very end of the main bogie frames
      they have some lateral motion anyway, but this is magnified by the swinging
      arms to some extent.

      Trying to reproduce this motion in model form would be VERY difficult,
      especially in N gauge, if that's what you were thinking of Laurie. The
      P-Train system might well work OK in OO, in fact the Hornby one goes a long
      way to reproduce it as it is, but in N there's not really enough room too
      play with, especially with the complex E-Train linkeages.

      Regards
      Kit
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 672 From: Silver_Dream_Racer Date: 07/03/2002
      Subject: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question
      Yes they do.
      The pivot point for each coach is not as you might think, at the
      place the bogie and the body meet, this would mean that the tilt
      point would be below the passengers feet when running, very
      uncomfortible. So when the body tilts, the real pivot point moves
      left and right, this has the effect of moving the pivot point up to
      about lap high, when the passenger is sat down. The centre of
      gravity is much more comfortable in this position.

      Take an object, and swing it left and right, but imagine that the
      pivot point is a little higher that the top of the object, you get
      the same effect. Im sure Kit could explain this better but I hope
      you get the point. The P train tilt system is different to E
      trains, but the effect is still the same, the imaginery tilt point
      is still lap high when sat down. It made walking interesting when
      highspeed cornering. I travelled on P train in 1983, it was
      brilliant.

      Regards

      Paul
      APT-E Conservation & Support Group, NRM, York
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 673 From: Nick Wheat Date: 07/03/2002
      Subject: Re: RCN: MAGLEV
      >From "Railwayana Collectors Network"

      Maybe Kit & Co. can put him on to some people who were involved.

      Please reply direct: Adam Turner <turner.adam@...>

      Regards

      Nick

      --
      Adam Turner wrote:
      >
      > Dear all,
      >
      > I am currently researching the now decommissioned MAGLEV system at
      > Birmingham International Airport. I was wondering if any body has any
      > literature about the system which may be of use in my research?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Adam Turner
      > Researcher of Transportation Science (MAG-LEV)
      > Web Site: www.angelfire.com/extreme/transportt
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 674 From: Nick Evans Date: 07/03/2002
      Subject: Re: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Silver_Dream_Racer" <Pal@...>
      To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:32 AM
      Subject: [APT Group] Re: apt-p: formation question

      <snip>

      > I travelled on P train in 1983, it was
      > brilliant.
      >
      Stop boasting!! :-D
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 675 From: Kit Spackman Date: 08/03/2002
      Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 294
      I rather deliberately left out the bits about the 'virtual' pivot point,
      but seeing has Paul has now 'revealed all'.....

      <G>

      The geometry of the system was designed so that the 'pivot' was at hip
      height when the passengers were sitting down, approximately at the body's
      centre of gravity. Of course this meant it was a knee height when they were
      standing up or walking down the train, which can be a trifle un-nerving, or
      even sick-making if you are a journalist....

      The pivot line was called 'The Bing Line', after Dr, Alan Bing, who sort of
      invented it. He was my Boss when I was in the APD, and he's the guy I made
      the 'E-Train in a bottle' for. (There's a pic of it on Paul's site) He was
      also a sailor of some repute and owned a vintage fishing vessel, now in the
      Exeter Maritime Museum, which he left behind when he went to the US
      Transportation Center in Pueblo. The 'E-Train in a bottle' was part of his
      leaving pressie.

      On E-Train the Bing line was rather closer to the rails than on P-Train,
      but about the same distance from the floor, mainly because of the differing
      lengths of the swinging arms. We had a piece of string threaded through TC1
      for one set of tests, that was meant to be right on the Bing line, and
      wasn't meant to move as the car tilted and curved. The Suspension
      Development team spent about 2 days trying to figure out why it WAS moving,
      before we found out that someone had attached it to the door of the TC1 VIP
      compartment and not to something that didn't move itself......

      Regards
      Kit
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 676 From: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/03/2002
      Subject: Poll results for Advanced-Passenger-Train
      The following Advanced-Passenger-Train poll is now closed. Here are the
      final results:


      POLL QUESTION: Which should be the first APT to be
      modelled in MS TrainSim ?

      CHOICES AND RESULTS
      - APT-E, 3 votes, 10.34%
      - APT-P, 17 votes, 58.62%
      - Both as simultaneous projects, 9 votes, 31.03%



      For more information about this group, please visit
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Advanced-Passenger-Train

      For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 677 From: Kit Spackman Date: 11/03/2002
      Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 296
      >POLL QUESTION: Which should be the first APT to be
      >modelled in MS TrainSim ?

      >CHOICES AND RESULTS
      >- APT-E, 3 votes, 10.34%
      >- APT-P, 17 votes, 58.62%
      >- Both as simultaneous projects, 9 votes, 31.03% <

      Hmmm, rather been overtaken by events, wouldn't you say?

      <G>

      Regards
      Kit
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 678 From: David Babb Date: 11/03/2002
      Subject: Re: [APT Group] Digest Number 296
      >POLL QUESTION: Which should be the first APT to be
      >modelled in MS TrainSim ?

      >CHOICES AND RESULTS
      >- APT-E, 3 votes, 10.34%
      >- APT-P, 17 votes, 58.62%
      >- Both as simultaneous projects, 9 votes, 31.03% <

      Hmmm, rather been overtaken by events, wouldn't you say?

      <G>

      Regards
      Kit


      Agreed, but funny how the pole was correct anyway....the APT-P was 1st.


      Dave Babb,
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 679 From: Andy Appleton Date: 13/03/2002
      Subject: OT: Class 390 (Pendolino) Yahoo! Group
      Hi Folks,
       
      Slightly off-topic, for those of you who don't already know their is a 'Class 390' tilting Pendolino Yahoo! Group:
       
       
       
      Enjoy!
      Andy
       
      Group: Advanced-Passenger-Train Message: 680 From: F NW Date: 14/03/2002
      Subject: Tilt Question
      Hello Group,

      Say for arguments sake the APT has three coaches. When the first coach hits
      a curve it starts to tilt, likewise for coach 2 and coach 3. So there's
      going to be a short time when one coach is part tilted (or levelled out
      after the curve) before the successive coaches follow suit. The question is
      how does the corridor connection between coaches cope with this?

      TIA,
      Fred

      _________________________________________________________________
      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.