Attachments :

Attachments :

Is this video available from anywhere? Anyone have a copy?

In one of the polls, it was asked what people wanted to see inside
TC1 [equipment bay] when the APT-E was complete. the result was 4
wanted to see the "E For Experimental" video on a TV - I don't think
i've seen this so I want to! :)

Thanks,

Steven Mosby
pmht_steven@...

Hi Steven

>Is this video available from anywhere? Anyone have a copy?

It was a BTF film originally so any scources for them should have it I
guess. Paul has one for sure, as that's the one we intend to use in TC1 at
Easter.

>In one of the polls, it was asked what people wanted to see inside TC1

[equipment bay] when >the APT-E was complete. the result was 4 wanted to
see the "E For Experimental" video on a TV >- I don't think i've seen this
so I want to! :)<

Make sure you're at York over Easter then. If you can stand the sight of me
in '70s long hair and flares that is! My wife refuses to watch it even now
<g>

Regards
Kit

----- Original Message -----

From: Kit Spackman

Sent: 01 April 2001 18:48

To: INTERNET:Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [APT Group] Digest Number 128

Hi Steven

>Is this video available from anywhere? Anyone have a copy?

It was a BTF film originally so any scources for them should have it I
guess. Paul has one for sure, as that's the one we intend to use in TC1 at
Easter.

>In one of the polls, it was asked what people wanted to see inside TC1
[equipment bay] when >the APT-E was complete. the result was 4 wanted to
see the "E For Experimental" video on a TV >- I don't think  i've seen this
so I want to! :)<

Make sure you're at York over Easter then. If you can stand the sight of me
in '70s long hair and flares that is! My wife refuses to watch it even now
<g>

Regards
Kit



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi Steven,

>On Saturday [7th April - Next workday], will we be preparing for this?<

Hot off the press (Paul and I have just been chatting about this on the
phone about an hour ago.,..)
the answer is yes, that's exactly what we're doing, Apparently we'll need
to check out the lighting in PC2 for the vistors,amongst other things.
Bring wellie boots and insulated gloves I reckon...

>Any ideas of what parts of e Train will be open? <

The plan is to have the cab of PC2 open with one of us there to tell it
like it was, one of us to guide the visitors down through PC2, making sure
they don't bang thier hedas or trip over the TMD damper, and one or more in
the VIP lounge of TC1 with either my slides or 'E for Experimental'
showing. Maybe both at once even.

Should be a good time.

Regards
Kit

For some reason, the content of this e-mail did not
come up. I'll try to resend it.

Graham
--- "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

No can do. Sorry.

Graham
--- "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...> wrote:

> For some reason, the content of this e-mail did not
> come up. I'll try to resend it.
>
> Graham
> --- "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

For some reason all of the e-mail was deleted by
Yahoo.
--- "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...> wrote:

> No can do. Sorry.
>
> Graham
> --- "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...> wrote:
> > For some reason, the content of this e-mail did
> not
> > come up. I'll try to resend it.
> >
> > Graham
> > --- "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Attachments :

Could you copy it into a html document and link to it from an email?

Steven

>From: "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...>
>Reply-To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
>To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [APT Group] Re: [Advanced-Passenger-Train] driver
>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:17:35 -0700 (PDT)
>

DISCLAIMER: Please read.

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Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised and therefore
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We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

APT-E Workday Number 9 (1 Year old).

Date: Saturday, April 7, 2001
Time: 10:00AM - 4:00PM UTC (GMT+00:00)

APT-E Workday Number 9 at the National Railway Museum.

Hi,

Great day working, the tent looks excellent!

I like what it says in the leaflet "large moveable covering that is
currently been constructed"

Moveable??!!

:Steven :)

Attachments :

Dear E-Train Conservation Group,

Will the proposed Easter weekend open day take place as planned?
I would really like to get some photos for my project.

Thanks,

Alex Stallman
Manchester School of Engineering

Hi Alex,

>Will the proposed Easter weekend open day take place as planned?<

It's not open 'day', it's open 'days'.....

We originally planned to be open from 1pm to 4 pm each of the four days of
the holiday, but because we didn't manage to get any of the planned set-up
activities done last weekend we may not manage the Friday.

Sat, Sun and Mon are definite though, at the stated times.

Of course, if you want to come on Friday and help out with the setup no-one
will complain....

Regards
Kit

Attachments :

As far as I know, E Train will be open during the weekend.

Steven :)
pmht_steven@...

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We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

E Train Open week

Date: Friday, April 13, 2001
Time: All Day

E Train Open days at York national railway museum

Hello friends,
I've only just become a member of this group and how welcom it is to
find you exist.
I've been a railway modeller all my life (i'm 49) and I specialise in
the post diesel era of Britains railways have been exhibiting my
display of superdetailed, modified and repainted OO locos & co. at
several exhibitions over the last year.
I have a particular interest in the early prototype, pilot scheme and
one off prototype locos and particularly like the WR hydraulics.
Among my projects is a plan to make a OO model of the APT-E.
I've been scratchbuilding for years now and have worked out the
method I would employ to produce the APT-E unit involving some home
plastic moulding - I dont actually see the train as being that
difficult to model - except for one small detail!
I desperatly need drawings and photographs of the unit to allow this
project to go ahead so I'm hoping that a fellow member of this group
will be willing and able to help me out here.
If you could assist with this perhaps you would be kind enough to
email me at railway.robert@... and we can take it from
there.
I hope to get this under way as soon as possible once I've got the
info I need and will be only too happy to acknowledge the source of
info when the model goes on show.
In the meantime if I can be of any help regarding the early,
prototype & pilot scheme locos to any member of the group please get
in touch by email.
I've already got models of Deltic, Falcon, Lion & DP2 with others in
the workshop.
Thanks to you all in anticipation,
Regards
Robert

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

E Train Open week

Date: Saturday, April 14, 2001
Time: All Day

E Train Open days at York national railway museum

Hello Robert,
If you look on the APT-E website at :
HTTP://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/york1/aptindex.htm

Goto the photo index page, and there should be enough material there
for you to get going.

If you need any specific parts of E train photographing please email
me on : PAL@... and I will see what I can do for you.

Best regards

Paul Leadley
APT-E Conservation & Support Group

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

E Train Open week

Date: Sunday, April 15, 2001
Time: All Day

E Train Open days at York national railway museum

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

E Train Open week

Date: Monday, April 16, 2001
Time: All Day

E Train Open days at York national railway museum

Dear Paul,
Very many thanks indeed for your email.
I have already downloaded many photos from the site you mention and saved
them to CD so as you say I can at least get going with the plannining for my
E-train model.
Thankyou very much indeed for you really kind offer to help with specific
photos of the train - I think that I might well need to ask you occasional
help here and needless to say I will cover any expense that you go to in
helping me.
I am planning to start the initial stages of the model in a few weeks time
so I will be back in touch with a progress report/photos a bit later.
In the meantime here are my full contact details for future reference.
Bob Forster, 169 Littlemoor Road, Preston Downs, Weymouth, Dorset, DT3 6AF.
Tel: 01305 835340
Fax: 01305 834644
Mobile: 07901 805395

Thank you very once again Paul,

Kindest Regards, Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul" <Pal@...>
To: <Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:04 PM
Subject: [APT Group] Re: Drawings & photos of APT-E


> Hello Robert,
> If you look on the APT-E website at :
> HTTP://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/york1/aptindex.htm
>
> Goto the photo index page, and there should be enough material there
> for you to get going.
>
> If you need any specific parts of E train photographing please email
> me on : PAL@... and I will see what I can do for you.
>
> Best regards
>
> Paul Leadley
> APT-E Conservation & Support Group
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Hi Everyone!

Does anyone know were I can get a pair of ticket
clippers from> I work as a TTI on The South Devon
Railway and I need a pair!

Why not take a look at The South Devon Railway's
website at http://www.southdevonrailway.org
The SDR runs steam trains from Totnes to Buckfastleigh
in Devon. The railway to easy to get to - just a 7
minuite walk from Totnes mainline station - well worth
a visit.

But remember the ticket clippers please!

Many thanks,


Graham

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Hi everyone

Heritage Railways magazine carries an advert which offers "Original BR
ticket nippers - £19.50"

Contact "Plum Loco", 16 Walmgate, York, YO1 9TB, Tel: 01904 641445 /
0776 1753164

HTH

Nick Wheat

--

> From: "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...>
> Subject: Can Anyone Help - A Pair of Ticket Clippers Needed
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> Does anyone know were I can get a pair of ticket
> clippers from> I work as a TTI on The South Devon
> Railway and I need a pair!
>
> Why not take a look at The South Devon Railway's
> website at http://www.southdevonrailway.org
> The SDR runs steam trains from Totnes to Buckfastleigh
> in Devon. The railway to easy to get to - just a 7
> minuite walk from Totnes mainline station - well worth
> a visit.
>
> But remember the ticket clippers please!
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Grahamm

Hi everyone

I attended a BTF (and others) show at Kidderminster last night and one
of the films shown was "On Track For The 80's - Rail Report 13" (1980)

This featured several subjects, the last being the APT-P undergoing
final testing before squadron service was to commence (!).

As well as the obligatory run-past scenes, there was a brief glimpse of
cab action plus some excellent footage of the boffins in the test-car
bellowing frantic messages and instructiuons at each other. Quite
comical stuff really, but of immense interest to people into details of
test car oprations.

Hope this is of interest.

Nick Wheat
Webmaster - http://www.britishtransportfilms.co.uk

In the time that I have recently spent looking at the group, and also
reading up on APT, the thing that has struck me is the negativity of
the situation. i.e. APT will never run again. From what I can tell,
the APT was a quality product, and as such could with appropriate
financial backing be built for reliable service.

We have only to look at Concorde (which many want to see fly again) to
see that because technology is considered old, that does not mean that
the technology is not usable.

May I be as bold as to suggest that Virgin has bought trains that are
based very much around the technology of the APT, and therefore
proving that there is a possible market for this technology.

I would appreciate comments on this as I would like to think that
britain can be Great again.

Kenneth J. Larking

Agree totally with Kenneth, why not try to get the APT to 'fly' again ?

As far as my readings go, the basic design was structurally and dynamically
sound. In fact re-kitting the train with currently available HV-AC power
electronics and traction drives may even see an improvement in
power-to-weight. The inclusion of re-generative braking over the original
hydro-kinetic system should be possible (maybe even throw in automobile
style ABS braking ??)

Potential markets for the APT may not need to be full high speed lines.
Here in Australia, we have recently seen a mid-speed (as opposed to high
speed) tilting train put into service in the state of Queensland using the
existing the existing permanent way. The advantage was of course in the
ability to handle the highly curvaceous scenic track work in an overall
faster journey time.

First question would be, who currently owns the APT design and do the design
drawings / calculations etc still exist ??

Dennis Williams
Australia




-----Original Message-----
From: KLARKING@... [mailto:KLARKING@...]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:13
To: Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [APT Group] APT - The legend lives on

In the time that I have recently spent looking at the group, and also
reading up on APT, the thing that has struck me is the negativity of
the situation. i.e. APT will never run again. From what I can tell,
the APT was a quality product, and as such could with appropriate
financial backing be built for reliable service.

We have only to look at Concorde (which many want to see fly again) to
see that because technology is considered old, that does not mean that
the technology is not usable.

May I be as bold as to suggest that Virgin has bought trains that are
based very much around the technology of the APT, and therefore
proving that there is a possible market for this technology.

I would appreciate comments on this as I would like to think that
britain can be Great again.

Kenneth J. Larking





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Attachments :

As far as my readings go, the basic design was structurally and dynamically
sound. In fact re-kitting the train with currently available HV-AC power
electronics and traction drives may even see an improvement in
power-to-weight.

>when we found the power for e-train, it had a plug on the end of a long
>lead. When we plugged this in, all the lights worked!

First question would be, who currently owns the APT design and do the design
drawings / calculations etc still exist ??

>No idea who owns the diagrams, Kit might own some. Most of the diagrams
>were found still on-board the train, most in a locked cupboard. These are
>been filed right now, but there were many diagrams for changes to the
>technology on-board.

Steven
=========================================
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Interesting comment Kenneth. I do not know from your question as to
whether you want to see the two existing APT trains run again or the
technology used again in new trains.

As Kit Spackman will tell you, for the latter, APT technology went to
Canada and Sweden for the development of their tilting trains which
have seen some success. Due to a number of takeovers since the days
of BREL, APT tilting technology is coming back to Britain in the
Virgin Cross Country fleet.

The problem with high speed tilting trains in Britain was not with
the APT-P but with the railway infrastructure. That is to run at
155mph would need investment in signalling, uprated overhead
equipment not to mention the increase in power supply. At the moment
this is still likely to be years away.

If you want to see both APT-P and APT-E on the mainline again then
this may be possible and is both support groups ultimate goal. The
problem is money. It may be possible to get APT-P back on the
mainline if the sums of money needed were available - please correct
me on this Rob if I am wrong!

As for APT-E, as it was an experimental train then it may be possible
to get it running in the future, but you would need the expertise
there to get each system working and a depot with dedicated staff who
could take the train apart, restore everything and then put it back
together again. The expertise is important, for example only a
handful of people know anything about the Gas Turbines which were
unique to this train!

I say APT-P is the obvious choice as it is in far better condition
than APT-E and quite a number of systems are working tanks to Rob and
his Volunteers at Crewe.

Perhaps Mr Branson would like to take up the case of getting APT-P
back to full working order (which in 1986 was fully reliable) to
acknowledge the source of this technology.

Perhaps other members of both support groups would like to post their
ideas?

Simon Argyle
APT-E Support & Conservation Group at the NRM

Hi,

Would it be possible to buy a copy of this film ? If so, where from ?

TIA,
John

> Hi everyone
>
> I attended a BTF (and others) show at Kidderminster last night and

one

> of the films shown was "On Track For The 80's - Rail Report 13"

(1980)

>
> This featured several subjects, the last being the APT-P undergoing
> final testing before squadron service was to commence (!).
>
> As well as the obligatory run-past scenes, there was a brief

glimpse of cab action plus some excellent footage of the boffins in
the test-car bellowing frantic messages and instructiuons at each
other. Quite comical stuff really, but of immense interest to people
into details of test car oprations.

>
> Hope this is of interest.
>
> Nick Wheat
> Webmaster - http://www.britishtransportfilms.co.uk

Hi everyone

--- Advanced-Passenger-Train@yahoogroups.com wrote: > There are 2
messages in this issue.

>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: British Transport Films - Another APT-P film to look out
> for!
> From: jowo_89@...
> 2. Hornby APT For Sale in AU
> From: "Andy Appleton" <AndyAppleton@...>
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________________

>

________________________________________________________________________

>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:26:45 -0000
> From: jowo_89@...
> Subject: Re: British Transport Films - Another APT-P film to look out
> for!
>
> Hi,
>
> Would it be possible to buy a copy of this film ? If so, where from ?
>
> TIA,
> John

I don't think any of these 'Rail Reports' ever made it to home video
apart from the really early 'Reports on Modernisation' which were
released on the long since deleted 'Transport In Vision' series.

The BFI may have a viewing copy of course.

Regards

Nick Wheat

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

>
> I say APT-P is the obvious choice as it is in far better condition
> than APT-E and quite a number of systems are working tanks to Rob

and

> his Volunteers at Crewe.
>
> Perhaps Mr Branson would like to take up the case of getting APT-P
> back to full working order (which in 1986 was fully reliable) to
> acknowledge the source of this technology.

This is something I've thought of too, especially after GNER started
to lease the class 89. But do the current changes in the rules
on "grandfather" rights for mainline certification make this more
difficult? (if you've goto jump through hoops to put a withdrawm 47
back on to railtrack lines I dread to think what you'd have to do for
something as complex as the APT). But it's an interesting idea,
something for my if I win the lottery list I guess :)

Hi Andy (and eeryone else)

>Trails and tribulations of the APT

I'm a trifle concerned that such an august magazine as 'Rail' manages to
get something as significant as APT's history round it's journalistic neck!

>While BR was reaping the benefits of its high-speed diesel trains, it

turned its attention to a >similar electric version - the Advanced
Passenger Trains (APT).<

Really? Their sense of timing is a little out there. The HST project was
started AFTER the APT was, and gained knowledge from the APT wheel/rail and
suspension technology.

>The first APT was a gas turbine-powered four-car multiple unit built in

1972 and tested until 1976. >It had limited success and was not
perpetuated.<

<EXPLETIVE DELETED!>

'Limited success'????????? What the hell else did they want us to do? Fly
the thing to the Moon?

We did 152 mph and London Leicester in a hour! If that's not success I
don't know what is.....

The writer needs to read his subject up a bit more. E-Train never was
intended to run more than about 5 years anyway, and it didn't have anything
to perpetuate.

>It needed to tilt.

>But simply tilting wasn't that straight forward. The passengers inside the

train had to feel no >discomfort and coffee cups were not to slide off the
table.<

Er, why else would you need it to tilt? The wheel/rail systems didn't need
tilt to get round the bends fast. E-Train and P-Train could get round all
bends on BR at 1.5 times their
conventional speed limits either while not tilted or, in E-Train's case,
tilted at 100% in the WRONG direction! Of all people I should know this as
i was the only person on board TC1 when we took Upper Broughton curve at 90
mph while tilted to the RIGHT at 12 deg. Not comfortable at all, but the
very fact that I'm wrting this proved it wasn't a safety issue.

I feel a strong letter coming on, maybe even a rude phone call......

Regards
Kit ( Now REALLY upset!)

Sock it to em Kit.

Im sick of so-called experts in railway mags not bothering to read up
on the subject of APT before they print, are you all totally
useless!!!!!!!!

They all need a good kick in the pants and then sat down and forced
to listen to the real truth and facts about the APT project.

Phone, email, write and even visit these idiots, how can groups like
the E and P train conservation groups correct the public mis-
conceptions about APT when articles appear in trusted rail mags full
of rubbish.

Makes my blood boil too.

They will learn the truth, if they like it or not!

Long live the APT.

Paul Leadley
APT-E Conservation & Support Group

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

APT-E Workday number 10.

Date: Saturday, May 5, 2001
Time: 10:00AM - 4:00PM GMT

APT-E Workday Number 10 at the National Railway Museum.

Thanks Nick!

Does anyone else know of anywere that sells Railway
Ticket Clippers?

Many thanks,
Graham.
--- Nick Wheat <wheaty@...> wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> Heritage Railways magazine carries an advert which
> offers "Original BR
> ticket nippers - �19.50"
>
> Contact "Plum Loco", 16 Walmgate, York, YO1 9TB,
> Tel: 01904 641445 /
> 0776 1753164
>
> HTH
>
> Nick Wheat
>
> --
> > From: "G. Duffy" <g_duffy_uk@...>
> > Subject: Can Anyone Help - A Pair of Ticket
> Clippers Needed
> >
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> > Does anyone know were I can get a pair of ticket
> > clippers from> I work as a TTI on The South Devon
> > Railway and I need a pair!
> >
> > Why not take a look at The South Devon Railway's
> > website at http://www.southdevonrailway.org
> > The SDR runs steam trains from Totnes to
> Buckfastleigh
> > in Devon. The railway to easy to get to - just a
> 7
> > minuite walk from Totnes mainline station - well
> worth
> > a visit.
> >
> > But remember the ticket clippers please!
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Grahamm
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Hi everyone

A pair of nippers are for sale on Ebay:-

Current price £9

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1142011147

Regards

Nick